Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4531
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Dan74 »

There's been a diversity of views here (as usual!). Some have said that Mahayana is irrelevant or superfluous at best. Some have posted various Mahayana materials as having been useful or inspirational.

So I am wondering if people tend to feel that posts from Mahayana practitioners are unwelcome intrusions (as was recently expressed) or simply irrelevant at best. I knows the admins intentions are to have an inclusive forum particularly in this subforum but I am asking how others feel.

I don't want to detract people from their practice by posting confusing information or even what is perceived as adhamma. :shrug: So if sharing my perspective as a Mahayana practitioner does that, I'd rather cease and desist.

:yingyang:

_/|\_
_/|\_
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Ben »

Hi Dan

Everyone is welcome here, that is, everyone who has an interest in the Theravada and who is prepared to abide by the Terms of Service and special guidelines for the individual fora. One does not need to be a Theravadin to validate one's membership. There are a couple of fora, such as those within the Classical Theravada, where a particular point of view (Mahavihara) is considered authoritative and external views, including one's own personal opinion, is considered off-topic. Within the other fora, so long as one doesn't insist on prosetylizing and presents their views in a non-confrontational and respectful manner, then there is no problem.

My own personal point of view is that while I am not a Mahayanist, I appreciate the input and perspective of non-Theravadins. And I am sure I'm not the only one who feels the same. And it is because of this reason I invited many of my Mahayanist and Vajrayanist friends to join Dhamma Wheel when we first began in early January this year.

Dan, in future if anyone has a problem with you posting here because you are not Theravadin, please refer them to me or one of my colleagues.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by retrofuturist »

Well said, Ben.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
thornbush
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by thornbush »

Since this is a Theravada focused Forum, all I can say is, whatever that is compatible with the Pali Canon, found also in the Mahayana, I am somewhat sure that it is of no issue of reading or reflecting for practice. Similarly, vice versa. After 2500 over years, surely, we have learned how to sit down and discuss what have we in common and even in variances, we can learn of our diversity too, isn't it?
It is my firm belief that our shared heritage is and will always be founded in the 4 Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path.
I was thinking of these Lotus Sutra quotes:
http://lotus.nichirenshu.org/lotus/s...lsw_chap16.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Good men, the Scriptures expounded by the Thus Come One are all for the purpose of saving and emancipating living beings. Sometimes I speak of myself, sometimes of others: sometimes I present myself, sometimes others; sometimes I show my own actions, sometimes those of others. All that I preach is true and not false."
"Because living beings have different natures, different desires, different actions, and different ways of thinking and making distinctions, and because I want to enable them to put down good roots, I employ a variety of causes and conditions, similes, parables, and phrases and preach different doctrines. This, the Buddha's work, I have never for a moment neglected."
http://cttbusa.org/lotus/lotus14_1.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Further, Manjushri, in the future Ending Age, when the Dharma is about to become extinct, the Bodhisattva Mahasattva who receives, upholds, reads, or recites this Sutra should harbor no thoughts of envy, flattery, or deceit.
He should also not ridicule or malign those who study the Buddha Way, nor should he seek their strengths or weaknesses.
If there are Bhikshus, Bhikshunis, Upasakas, Upasikas, those who seek to be Hearers, Pratyekabuddhas, or those who seek the Bodhisattva Way, he should not torment them or cause them to have doubts by saying to them, “You are all very far from the Path, and you will never obtain the wisdom of all modes.
Why not? Because you are careless and lax in the Way.”
Further, he should not frivolously discuss the Dharma for the sake of argument.”
Namo Amitabha Buddha!
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19944
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Dan,
Dan74 wrote:There's been a diversity of views here (as usual!). Some have said that Mahayana is irrelevant or superfluous at best.
I did post something a little like that http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 990#p12308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but it was in response to a question about Tantra and it was a statement about tantra being way outside Theravada doctrine:
According to Theravada doctrine Tantra (and Mahayana) is, at best, irrelevant. I presume that the vast majority of people here are like me in knowing nothing about Tantra, so I'm puzzled as to how you think we can help.
I don't have a problem with Mahayana perspectives that might help me understand the Theravada path, or Buddhism in general. However, if someone suggests that Theravada is not a complete path and Arahants still have more work to do then I tend to go straight to the "irrelevant" line... :zzz:

Metta
Mike
User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by kc2dpt »

I do wish people would be more explicit in stating whether their answer is intended from a Theravadin perspective or Mahayana perspective or a personal opinion perspective. I think that would save us all alot of time posting "That's wrong" or "That contradicts this sutta" or similar. If we just state up front where the answer is coming from then no one mistakenly thinks an answer is intended to represent something it's not.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by christopher::: »

Hmmm. While I feel most strongly a connection to Zen Buddhism, there are a number of teachers (as well as groovy dharma practitioners, wink, wink, nudge, nudge) in Tibetan and Theravadin Buddhism who's povs just resonate perfectly with how i view the world and my practice. There are also issues, ideas and teachings in Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism that just don't interest me that much...

Sometimes I feel like a transdharmite, someone who's kinda confused about his gender, err, i mean school....

:juggling:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4531
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Dan74 »

Peter wrote:I do wish people would be more explicit in stating whether their answer is intended from a Theravadin perspective or Mahayana perspective or a personal opinion perspective. I think that would save us all alot of time posting "That's wrong" or "That contradicts this sutta" or similar. If we just state up front where the answer is coming from then no one mistakenly thinks an answer is intended to represent something it's not.
I think it's reasonable to assume than a Mahayana practitioner will post from their understanding of a Mahayana perspective. But if that perspective contradicts something in the Pali canon, I'd certainly be very keen to know and to understand the reasons why.

So keep up your critique!

_/|\_
_/|\_
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4531
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Dan74 »

My own personal point of view is that while I am not a Mahayanist, I appreciate the input and perspective of non-Theravadins. And I am sure I'm not the only one who feels the same. And it is because of this reason I invited many of my Mahayanist and Vajrayanist friends to join Dhamma Wheel when we first began in early January this year.

Dan, in future if anyone has a problem with you posting here because you are not Theravadin, please refer them to me or one of my colleagues.
Metta

Ben
Thanks, guys!

I didn't mean to sound like I am whingeing.

What I am interested in is across the board feedback on the non-Theravada input. I've noticed that posts by guys like pink trike, genkaku and drolma (who from what I can gather are serious practitioners) don't seem to get that much response. So I was simply wondering if people were finding us useful. :thinking:

But the forum itself is a great resource and whether I continue to post or not, I will certainly continue reading!

_/|\_
_/|\_
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Dan,

And not to shoo you away of course, but don't forget...

Dharma Wheel (Mahayana and Vajrayana forum)
http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
Fede
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: The Heart of this "Green & Pleasant Land"...
Contact:

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Fede »

I will tell you how it is with me:

I first encountered Buddhism via the Mahayana/Tibetan Buddhism route.
Much of the preliminary literature I read, was presented from a Mahayana Tibetan/Zen perspective.
had it not been for these, my travels would not have been so fruitful.
It took me a long time for me to decide where to pitch my tent and hoist my pennant.
In the end, after much deliberation and confusion (as many here will attest to) I swerved towards Theravada.
Why? Simply because there were some notions and ideologies in Mahayana I could not easily digest or accept.
This is not to say I considered them wrong, or bad, or even inaccurate.
It is merely to say that they did not sit well with me specifically.

But I take nothing away from that tradition, or path.
I am a cause of exaspertion to myself, in my ignorance of much scholarly knowlege, but my heart, I hope, is in the right place....
I have Mahayana to thank for giving me a good shove in the back and setting me rolling.
Poor Theravada - look what it's ended up with!! :jumping: :jumping:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by kc2dpt »

christopher::: wrote:there are a number of teachers ... who's povs just resonate perfectly with how i view the world and my practice.
I wonder... is this is good criteria for choosing a teacher? that we already agree with their view? I recall the Canki Sutta contains some advice from the Buddha for how to select a teacher.
Dan74 wrote:I think it's reasonable to assume than a Mahayana practitioner will post from their understanding of a Mahayana perspective.
I agree. But as it stands I don't have a way to know which posters are Mahayana practitioners.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 4531
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by Dan74 »

As the night moves on and the silence slowly spreads, I am beginning to realise that I've started a pretty stupid thread.

This notion of two camps, Theravada and Mahayana, "you guys" and "your" attitude to "us", that's just bloody nonsense, isn't it? :cookoo:

Are we not just a bunch of people trying to find our way, using the best guidance we know to the best of our abilities?

We could do worse than dropping all pretense and just sharing honestly, without labels getting in the way.

..........
_/|\_
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by christopher::: »

Peter wrote:
christopher::: wrote:there are a number of teachers ... who's povs just resonate perfectly with how i view the world and my practice.
I wonder... is this is good criteria for choosing a teacher? that we already agree with their view? I recall the Canki Sutta contains some advice from the Buddha for how to select a teacher.
I wasn't talking about choosing a personal teacher, rather choosing to spend time reading what a specific "published" teacher has said or written. There are thousands of things that have been written. How does one decide to spend time with specific Theravada, Tibetan, Pureland, Nichiren or Zen teachers' writing unless there is a resonance with how you view the world and your practice?

We may differ on this, of course.
Dan74 wrote:Are we not just a bunch of people trying to find our way, using the best guidance we know to the best of our abilities?

We could do worse than dropping all pretense and just sharing honestly, without labels getting in the way.
:group:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
genkaku
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Is Mahayana perspective useful for Theravada practitioners?

Post by genkaku »

My own personal point of view is that while I am not a Mahayanist, I appreciate the input and perspective of non-Theravadins.
I agree with Ben ... but probably from the other end of the telescope. I appreciate and sometimes find very useful reminders coming from my Theravadin friends. I say that despite the fact that if I had to find a label, I would probably get stuck with "Mahayanist."

PS. I would be grateful if no one asked me to define either "Mahayanist" or "Theravadin." I hate feeling stupid. I feel more comfortable with a business card that might read, "Genkaku's the name. Suffering is the game." :smile:
Post Reply