Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

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Sacha G
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Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Sacha G »

Hello
I found this interpretation of Dependent Origination by Vasubandhu in the Abhidharmakosa.
I think it's all the more interesting as it is a "momentary" interpretation, in a classical (northern) abhidharma text.
"When a person in prey to the kleshas commits murder [for example], the 12 parts are realized in one and the same moment:
1) His error is Ignorance
2. His intention are the Formations
3. His distinct consciousness of a certain object is Consciousness
4. The 4 [other] aggregates co-existing with Consciousness is Name & Form
5. The organs in relation to Name & Form are the six Sense Bases
6. The application of the six Sense Bases is Contact
7. To experience contact is Feeling
8. Desire is Craving
9. The paryavastahans [absenc of shame etc...] associated with Craving are Attachement
10. Bodily and vocal actions proceeding from that are Bhava
11. The production of all these dharmas is Birth
12. Their maturity is old Age and their rupture is Death...."
:group:
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cooran
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by cooran »

Hello Sacha,

Vasubandhu is rather later in Buddhism. He was around in the 5th A.D. He is a Mahayana teacher. In the Jodo Shinshu branch of Buddhism, he is considered the Second Patriarch. In Zen, he is the 21st Patriarch.

If you wish to discuss Mahayana teachings, why not go to our sister site:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by mikenz66 »

See also: http://dhammawheel.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for some references on where the Theravada Canon and Commentaries contain discussions of momentariness.

E.g. See PP 293 and PP 303 of "A comprehensive manual of Abhidhamma":
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hxo ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From Ven Bodhi's notes on page 294:
Teachers explain them by mixing both methods: A mixed treatment of the methods is found in the visuddhimagga, Chapter XVII, where the twenty-four conditional relations are used to elucidate the relationship between each pair of factors in the twelve-fold formula of depending arising.
:anjali:
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Nyana »

cooran wrote:If you wish to discuss Mahayana teachings, why not go to our sister site:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Abhidharmakośa & bhāsya are not Mahāyāna texts Chris.

All the best,

Geoff
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Geoff,

So this is a summary the Sarvāstivādin Abhidarma that was used by the Mahayana schools?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhidharma-kosa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Abhidharma-kośa (the compendium of Abhidharma, Tib. chos mngon pa mdzod) is a key text in verse written in Sanskrit by Vasubandhu. It summarizes Sarvāstivādin tenets in eight chapters with a total of around 600 verses. The text was widely respected, and used by schools of Mahayana Buddhism in India, Tibet and the Far East.
:anjali:
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Assaji
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Assaji »

Hello,
Sacha G wrote:I found this interpretation of Dependent Origination by Vasubandhu in the Abhidharmakosa.
I think it's all the more interesting as it is a "momentary" interpretation, in a classical (northern) abhidharma text.
At about the same time the "momentary" interpretation was first introduced in Theravada, namely in the text called Sammoha-vinodani:

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/coarisea.htm#note" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes, Dmytro
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Nyana »

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Geoff,

So this is a summary the Sarvāstivādin Abhidarma that was used by the Mahayana schools?
Yeah, the root verses are Sarvāstivāda (Northern cousin of Theravāda), and the commentary (Abhidharmakośabhāsya) is generally considered to be Sautrāntika. It's possible that the doctrine of radical momentariness that was to become a part of Theravāda through the writings of Ven. Buddhaghosa, originated amongst mainland Indian sautrāntikas.

All the best,

Geoff
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retrofuturist
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Ñāṇa,
Ñāṇa wrote:...and the commentary (Abhidharmakośabhāsya) is generally considered to be Sautrāntika.
Not to doubt you (because matters of this ilk aren't my specialty) but it sounds a little incongruent for them to author an Abhidhamma commentary given that Sautrāntika means "those who rely upon the sutras"!

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Nyana »

retrofuturist wrote:Not to doubt you (because matters of this ilk aren't my specialty) but it sounds a little incongruent for them to author an Abhidhamma commentary given that Sautrāntika means "those who rely upon the sutras"!
Like most things from the classical era it's a complex subject, and labels aren't always accurate. Basically, everyone during that period was thoroughly embedded in the abhidharma thought-world, including the so-called sautrāntika authors. The differences between authors included how much one criticized the Sarvāstivāda tenets, the methods of criticism, and so on. For example, at times the Abhidharmakośabhāsya uses quotations from the sūtras to criticize some of the orthodox interpretations. This is similar to what we see being done these days by sutta oriented Theravāda authors like Ṭhānissaro & Ñāṇananda (who don't necessarily agree with each other even though they are both using a suttantika methodology).
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Sacha G »

Thanks to all of you for those very interesting replies.
Sacha
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Bankei »

Ñāṇa wrote:
cooran wrote:If you wish to discuss Mahayana teachings, why not go to our sister site:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Abhidharmakośa & bhāsya are not Mahāyāna texts Chris.

All the best,

Geoff
Doesn't non Theravada = Mahayana? :tongue:
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by tiltbillings »

Bankei wrote:
Ñāṇa wrote:
cooran wrote:If you wish to discuss Mahayana teachings, why not go to our sister site:
http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Abhidharmakośa & bhāsya are not Mahāyāna texts Chris.

All the best,

Geoff
Doesn't non Theravada = Mahayana? :tongue:
Only if you make the really bad mistake of: Theravada = hinayana.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by DarwidHalim »

Vasubhandu originally doesn't have Mahayana view. In fact, he criticized Mahayana heavily. He wrote several texts against Mahayana.

Due to his brother influence, Asanga, Vasubhandu at the end felt remorse and wanted to cut his tongue. However, due to Asanga, he didn't do it and finally to pay his karma he wrote this abhidharmakosa.

Vasubhandu, finally became the Abbot of Nalanda University.

His life story can be seen here.

http://www.dharmafellowship.org/library ... -part1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Alex123
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by Alex123 »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Ñāṇa,
Ñāṇa wrote:...and the commentary (Abhidharmakośabhāsya) is generally considered to be Sautrāntika.
Not to doubt you (because matters of this ilk aren't my specialty) but it sounds a little incongruent for them to author an Abhidhamma commentary given that Sautrāntika means "those who rely upon the sutras"!

Metta,
Retro. :)
Somewhere I have read that Sautrāntika does not have to mean reliance on suttas as discourses in Sutta-Pitaka. Assuming that Sautrāntika in pali would be suttantika, I propose this alternative:

sutta= a thread; a string; a discourse; an aphorism.

As I understand their Abhidharma from what I've read from others, it teaches momentariness and that somehow cittas pass accumulations from one citta to another. Perhaps they had some sort of a "thread" (a meaning of sutta) that links momentary cittas. Or maybe the process of cittas runs like beads on a thread.
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Re: Vasubandhu on"Momentary Dependent Origination"

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Alex,

String theory. :tongue:

I don't know enough about the early schools to comment either way on your theory, but thanks for sharing.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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