little lies, big lies
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
little lies, big lies
Death: HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO *BE* HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers? [Santa Clauses]
Death: YES. AS PRACTICE, YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
Death: YES. JUSTICE, MERCY, DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
Susan: They're not the same at all.
Death: YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER, AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET, YOU TRY TO ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD. AS IF THERE IS SOME, SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE, BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
Death: YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?
-- Hogfather by Terry Pratchett
Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers? [Santa Clauses]
Death: YES. AS PRACTICE, YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
Death: YES. JUSTICE, MERCY, DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
Susan: They're not the same at all.
Death: YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER, AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET, YOU TRY TO ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD. AS IF THERE IS SOME, SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE, BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
Death: YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?
-- Hogfather by Terry Pratchett
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
Does the above apply to the Buddhadasa wallas? 

- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
The real question might be a bit different than that.plwk wrote:Does the above apply to the Buddhadasa wallas?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
Don't let his chosen genre fool you - Terry Pratchett asks some good questions. Those who don't know his work might like to try a tiny sample of it: http://www.au.lspace.org/books/dawcn/dawcn-english.html.
Kim

Kim
Re: little lies, big lies
I actually heard an interview with him on public radio a few months ago on the subject of his alzheimers (I think).
It was one of the more intelligent interviews I have heard for awhile, and very insightful.
kind regards
Ben
It was one of the more intelligent interviews I have heard for awhile, and very insightful.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..
Re: little lies, big lies
That was fun ty for the link. I havent read any Terry Prachett in years.Kim O'Hara wrote:Don't let his chosen genre fool you - Terry Pratchett asks some good questions. Those who don't know his work might like to try a tiny sample of it: http://www.au.lspace.org/books/dawcn/dawcn-english.html.
![]()
Kim
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
Actually, it might be interesting to consider the OP in terms of the Buddha's teachings.m0rl0ck wrote:That was fun ty for the link. I havent read any Terry Prachett in years.Kim O'Hara wrote:Don't let his chosen genre fool you - Terry Pratchett asks some good questions. Those who don't know his work might like to try a tiny sample of it: http://www.au.lspace.org/books/dawcn/dawcn-english.html.
![]()
Kim
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
tiltbillings wrote:Death: YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER, AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY.
I don't think the Buddha defined mercy, let's say "compassion" in terms of atoms and molecules. I'd ask Mr. "Death" here how it is he came to the view that if something cannot be shown as an atom or molecule, it is fictional.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Re: little lies, big lies
kirk5a wrote:tiltbillings wrote:Death: YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER, AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY.
I don't think the Buddha defined mercy, let's say "compassion" in terms of atoms and molecules. I'd ask Mr. "Death" here how it is he came to the view that if something cannot be shown as an atom or molecule, it is fictional.
"Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
chownah
Re: little lies, big lies
Tilt: Pratchett is a clever guy. I've enjoyed his books. But.. I don't get what you are trying to say here.
Re: little lies, big lies
chownah wrote:kirk5a wrote:tiltbillings wrote:Death: YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER, AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY.
I don't think the Buddha defined mercy, let's say "compassion" in terms of atoms and molecules. I'd ask Mr. "Death" here how it is he came to the view that if something cannot be shown as an atom or molecule, it is fictional.
"Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
chownah
And what point are you making by referring to this teaching? That the Buddha was a materialist? That compassion is a fiction (lie) according to the Buddha also? Or what.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
Where is compassion?kirk5a wrote: And what point are you making by referring to this teaching? That the Buddha was a materialist? That compassion is a fiction (lie) according to the Buddha also? Or what.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
Are you asking me to describe it in terms of "the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas." ?tiltbillings wrote:Where is compassion?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
The question is, in term of what Death said, where is compassion or wisdom?kirk5a wrote:Are you asking me to describe it in terms of "the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas." ?tiltbillings wrote:Where is compassion?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
I don't accept the terms of Death's reduction. Ever helped anyone in need?tiltbillings wrote:The question is, in term of what Death said, where is compassion or wisdom?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
So, you are saying compassion is an existing thing out there somewhere?kirk5a wrote:I don't accept the terms of Death's reduction. Ever helped anyone in need?tiltbillings wrote:The question is, in term of what Death said, where is compassion or wisdom?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
I'm asking whether you have compassion or not. If not, that's interesting. If yes, "where is it"?tiltbillings wrote:So, you are saying compassion is an existing thing out there somewhere?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
Actually, it was and is my question to you, where is it?kirk5a wrote:I'm asking whether you have compassion or not. If not, that's interesting. If yes, "where is it"?tiltbillings wrote:So, you are saying compassion is an existing thing out there somewhere?
Maybe Death's statement, 'YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?' is to the point.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: little lies, big lies
To... what point? Compassion is an untruth that we need to "believe in" in order for it to be?tiltbillings wrote:Actually, it was and is my question to you, where is it?
Maybe Death's statement, 'YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?' is to the point.
As far as "where" it is - I would say it is an aspect of the mind. Do you think it is a lie?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23044
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: little lies, big lies
It is a lie that it is a self-existant thingie that is part ofthe universe, and it "becomes" because we bring it about.kirk5a wrote:To... what point? Compassion is an untruth that we need to "believe in" in order for it to be?tiltbillings wrote:Actually, it was and is my question to you, where is it?
Maybe Death's statement, 'YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?' is to the point.
As far as "where" it is - I would say it is an aspect of the mind. Do you think it is a lie?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests