Yes, I should have been more precise. However, my point was that the first proximate meditative stabilization is not a desire plane mind. Je Tsongkhapa, The Small Exposition of the Stages of the Path to Enlightenment:manjusri wrote:One thing I do want to take issue with: Geoff wrote:
This is absolutely incorrect. What one attains with shamatha is what is referred to as the first proximate stabilization which is just "shy of" the first basic stabilization (dhyana). "Tsongkhapa insists that the first proximate stabilization provides sufficient attentional stability and freedom from the hindrances to proceed on to the successful cultivation of insight." B. Alan Wallace, The Bridge of Quiescence, p. 128. So, "at a minimum" actual vipassana can occur within the first proximate stabilization.According to Je Tsongkhapa, actual vipaśyanā can only occur within the first meditative stabilization (dhyāna) at a minimum. Your reference to Gen Lamrimpa and Alan Wallace in the OP leads me to think that you are familiar with this Gelugpa interpretation.
- Well then, what plane incorporates the samadhi in which pliancy has not yet arisen? That samadhi is included in the plane of the desire realm. Although such single-pointed attention is present there, it is a plane of non-equipoise; it is not established as a plane of meditative equipoise. The Bhumivastu says that this is due to the fact that it is not accomplished by means of lack of remorse, by supreme pleasure and joy, and pliancy.
Thus, without having achieved pliancy, even when mindfulnes is not applied continually, the mind may naturally become non-conceptual; and this samadhi, which seems as if it can be integrated with all activities of moving, walking, lying down and sitting, is called single-pointed attention of the desire realm. But it is not genuine Quiescence....
The Sravakabhumi says that ... due to the attainment of mental engagement and quiescence that are included in the first proximate meditative stabilization, one achieves the small level of mental engagement on the plane of meditative equipoise.
- When one cultivates the nine mental abidings that precede calm abiding, these nine are all minds included within the desire realm. When, however, after achieving these nine, one attains calm abiding, one has attained a mind that is included within an upper realm. The upper realms are the form realm and the formless realm.
Well, sūtrayāna lamrim and anuttarayogatantra kyerim & dzogrim are different paths with different methods.manjusri wrote:There is a very good reason why they don't emphasize achieving higher states of stabilization (or even the first stabilization). Most Tibetan Buddhists practitioners are oriented to achieving enlightenment by means of Tantric practice, specifically Anuttarayogatantra. As Geoff and some of you will know, I'm sure, a defining feature of Tantra is the sublimation of the mental afflictions, especially sensual desire, so that they empower one towards enlightenment. In other words, passion must manifest in one's consciousness. However, when one accomplishes the first basic stabilization, sensual desire is effectively inhibited, which obviously precludes the possibility of it's sublimation. Achieving the first proximate stabilization does yield a tenuous control over the five hindrances, but the passions may still be aroused and sublimated by the practitioner.
All the best,