How does one see and know for themselves whether a teaching has validity?Manapa wrote:If the teaching has validity.Peter wrote:See and know what?Manapa wrote:see and know for yourself
To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
- Cittasanto
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Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
do the practice, see and know for yourself!Peter wrote:How does one see and know for themselves whether a teaching has validity?Manapa wrote: If the teaching has validity.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
- Prasadachitta
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Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
1) We can have theory's about what is possible and accept them as true based upon evidence which we trust.
2) We can be doubtful about there being any outcome which is greater than what we have already experienced.
3)We can have confidence that there is always a better outcome and that it is always possible.
I choose #3 and I will follow the advise of those who inspire this confidence in me. Since it is Buddhist teachings and practitioners who inspire this confidence I think it is safe to say that I am a Buddhist. If I were to reject or accept a portion of the teachings without knowing their validity or lack thereof within my own experience that would simply take the wind out my sails so to speak.
Metta
Gabriel
2) We can be doubtful about there being any outcome which is greater than what we have already experienced.
3)We can have confidence that there is always a better outcome and that it is always possible.
I choose #3 and I will follow the advise of those who inspire this confidence in me. Since it is Buddhist teachings and practitioners who inspire this confidence I think it is safe to say that I am a Buddhist. If I were to reject or accept a portion of the teachings without knowing their validity or lack thereof within my own experience that would simply take the wind out my sails so to speak.
Metta
Gabriel
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
So the question then becomes: is accepting the possibility of nibbana a part of one's practice? Reflecting on it this way... It seems to me Nibbana is an effect rather than a cause. In that case I'd say it is not necessary to accept Nibbana in order to properly practice the path.Manapa wrote:do the practice, see and know for yourself!Peter wrote:How does one see and know for themselves whether a teaching has validity?Manapa wrote: If the teaching has validity.
On the other hand... If one does not believe in the goal, will that affect how one pursues the path to that goal? Will one strive with the same earnestness? the same focus? I would guess no.
Then again... As long as one believe it is possible to decrease suffering, while holding no view as to the possibility of completely eliminating suffering... is that sufficient?
Some thoughts to consider.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
- Prasadachitta
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Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
Hi Peter,Peter wrote: On the other hand... If one does not believe in the goal, will that affect how one pursues the path to that goal? Will one strive with the same earnestness? the same focus? I would guess no.
I think we tend to find it quite comfortable to "believe in the goal" without necessarily gaining a sense of earnestness. My feeling is that acceptance of ideas can sometimes stifle the earnest striving to realize their validity. In "Mind in Buddhist Psychology: Necklace of Clear Understanding by Yeshe Gyaltsen" Sraddha is defined..."It is a deep conviction, lucidity, and longing for those things which are real, have value, and are possible. It functions as the basis for sustained interest." This fits what I generally think of as Buddhist faith and it is much better than belief, acceptance, or even confidence.
Metta
Gabriel
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
- Cittasanto
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Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
Hi Peter
A good question to ask is - did the Buddha know what nibbana was before he got there?
I am of the opinion that the bodhisatta was heedful to what his actual attainment was and saw there was more to do, he found a path which he found to be effective and worked.
A good question to ask is - did the Buddha know what nibbana was before he got there?
I am of the opinion that the bodhisatta was heedful to what his actual attainment was and saw there was more to do, he found a path which he found to be effective and worked.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
Hello all,
Why reinvent the Wheel?
One does not set out on a journey without knowing the destination and having a map on how to get there. It would be pointless to get a road map in Los Angeles which tells you the way to New York and then just drive whichever way the impulse takes you, saying all roads lead to New York. They don't. Better to follow the directions of one who has travelled The Way before you. All roads do not lead to New York (or Rome as the case may be). Alternatively, why follow the directions to anywhere if you don't want to get to the particular destination. The whole Path of the Buddha is laid out solely to lead to the Destination (Nibbana)
metta
Chris
Why reinvent the Wheel?
One does not set out on a journey without knowing the destination and having a map on how to get there. It would be pointless to get a road map in Los Angeles which tells you the way to New York and then just drive whichever way the impulse takes you, saying all roads lead to New York. They don't. Better to follow the directions of one who has travelled The Way before you. All roads do not lead to New York (or Rome as the case may be). Alternatively, why follow the directions to anywhere if you don't want to get to the particular destination. The whole Path of the Buddha is laid out solely to lead to the Destination (Nibbana)
metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
- Cittasanto
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
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Re: To be a Buddhist you must accept Nibbana?
Hi Chris,
do you know what a place is like before you arrive?
the route is not the same as the destination, the path may get you there but isn't the same as being there.
[quote="Chris"]Hello all,
Why reinvent the Wheel?
One does not set out on a journey without knowing the destination and having a map on how to get there. It would be pointless to get a road map in Los Angeles which tells you the way to New York and then just drive whichever way the impulse takes you, saying all roads lead to New York. They don't. Better to follow the directions of one who has travelled The Way before you. All roads do not lead to New York (or Rome as the case may be). Alternatively, why follow the directions to anywhere if you don't want to get to the particular destination. The whole Path of the Buddha is laid out solely to lead to the Destination (Nibbana)
metta
do you know what a place is like before you arrive?
the route is not the same as the destination, the path may get you there but isn't the same as being there.
[quote="Chris"]Hello all,
Why reinvent the Wheel?
One does not set out on a journey without knowing the destination and having a map on how to get there. It would be pointless to get a road map in Los Angeles which tells you the way to New York and then just drive whichever way the impulse takes you, saying all roads lead to New York. They don't. Better to follow the directions of one who has travelled The Way before you. All roads do not lead to New York (or Rome as the case may be). Alternatively, why follow the directions to anywhere if you don't want to get to the particular destination. The whole Path of the Buddha is laid out solely to lead to the Destination (Nibbana)
metta
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill