Hello DmytroDmytro wrote:Hi Sylvester,
Here I would disagree. Anusaya is an underlying tendency that gets activated:Sylvester wrote:If you look at how other suttas present raganusaya and how it anuseti sukha vedana, it becomes clear that raganusaya is the consequence of raga. Eg from SN 36.6 -
Having been touched by that painful feeling, he resists (and resents) it. Then in him who so resists (and resents) that painful feeling, an underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he then proceeds to enjoy sensual happiness. And why does he do so? An untaught worldling, O monks, does not know of any other escape from painful feelings except the enjoyment of sensual happiness. Then in him who enjoys sensual happiness, an underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind).
Tassāyeva kho pana dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno paṭighavā hoti. Tamenaṃ dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighavantaṃ, yo dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo, so anuseti. So dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno kāmasukhaṃ abhinandati. Taṃ kissa hetu? Na hi so, bhikkhave, pajānāti assutavā puthujjano aññatra kāmasukhā dukkhāya vedanāya nissaraṇaṃ, tassa kāmasukhañca abhinandato, yo sukhāya vedanāya rāgānusayo, so anuseti.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one does not relish it, welcome it, or remain fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession doesn't get obsessed.
And thanks to the development if wisdom, these tendencies can be removed, especially on the basis of samadhi.
I guess we do have to agree to disagree.
It's strange how when we both look at the same sutta, we arrive at different conclusions. From an earlier passage in the same sutta -
Looking at both statements, they do appear to be conditional statements, not categorical ones. The verbs are qualified by "if". Ven Bodhi's translation of the same passage also couches the statements as conditional statements. Which does suggest that even putthujanas can, with the satipatthanas, prevent raga from overtaking the sukha vedana, and thereby activating/lying with the raganusaya.Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as a requisite condition, there arises what is felt either as pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain. If, when touched by a feeling of pleasure, one relishes it, welcomes it, or remains fastened to it, then one's passion-obsession gets obsessed.
This does fit in rather nicely with MN 44 that not all raganusaya have to be pahatabbo/abandoned with respect to sukha. They just arise if raga is present.