Taking members seriously

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retrofuturist
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:19 am

Greetings Jechbi,
Jechbi wrote:p.s., would someone please enable me to post my sig again? I still don't have access. Thank you.
Strange... now I'm not seeing it there either.

I'll unlock your signature editing ability for now, update it and I'll relock it.

EDIT: Actually, your signature is showing up in your profile, just not in topic... I'll investigate. (update: let's see how it goes next time you post - PM me if it still doesn't work)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:20 am

Jechbi wrote:. . . . .
Always with the spinning of how badly you were treated here, which is to say, this really is all about you.
tiltbillings wrote:He could have done that, or other forum members could have - had they found fault - used the "report" function or PMs, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Yes, Tilt, but the problem is that when I use the report function, I'm met with additional ridicule, criticism and dismissiveness. I'm not saying this to be negative. I'm saying it as a statement of what I have directly experienced.
Has it ever occurred to you that when you lodge a complaint, that when the complaint is adjudicated, but not to your liking, maybe you should just let it go rather than continuing to complain about it, which just gets annoying?
tiltbillings wrote:Who determines if it a valid point? But I engaged with Alex for pages, so I obviously did take what he said seriously, though significantly and seriously wrong. Also, quite seriously, at that time of the naughty post you linked, it was unclear if it was not an elaborate joke. It would not have been the first time being lead down a path by jokester like that..
It doesn't matter if it's a valid point or not. As a member of the mod/admin team, I feel you would better serve the goals of the board by refraining from making in-thread, dismissive statements like that.
That is your opinion that it was a dismissive statement, which I don't share and others seem not to share, but the only opinion that matters here is obviously yours? Do you really hear how you are coming across.
One other thing to note: Having made this suggestion at DW's invitation, I now find that the tables are turned, and I am on the defensive, answering further criticism about myself. This, too, has been an ongoing pattern, and it is one of the things I have been concerned about.
It might be worthwhile to seriously entertain the possibility that It might really have something to do with the way you are going about it.
p.s., would someone please enable me to post my sig again? I still don't have access. Thank you.
As I told you, in response to your unnecessary and negative blog entry about this issue of your signature, contact David or Retro
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Jechbi
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:35 am

I was concerned that this would happen.

Tilt, your post is off topic.

One thing to clarify: The issue wasn't that I was unhappy with how the complaint was adjudicated. The issue is that after I made the complaint (in which I also cited examples of how others were treated, not just myself), things just got worse. And I continued to see responses to other members (not just me) that appeared to me not to support Dhamma discussion.

But why are we talking about that here, Tilt? You suggested that we continue that discussion by PM, and I have responded to your good suggestion.

As I understand it, this suggestion that I have placed here in the suggestion box has been rejected as invalid because I you believe I am wrong in my observation that the mod/admin team sometimes engages in ridicule and dismissiveness. That's fine. You are free to reject my suggestion.

p.s., thank you for enabling me to post a sig again. Also, in the middle of all this bickering, I would like to say something positive: It's great that you have allowed this suggestion to be posted, even if you view it as an invalid suggestion. Once the dust settles, I hope the very best for you and for this site.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:48 am

Jechbi wrote:I was concerned that this would happen.

Tilt, your post is off topic.
Not really.
One thing to clarify: The issue wasn't that I was unhappy with how the complaint was adjudicated. The issue is that after I made the complaint (in which I also cited examples of how others were treated, not just myself), things just got worse. And I continued to see responses to other members (not just me) that appeared to me not to support Dhamma discussion.
And this is the sort of thing you keep saying, and the moderation team looked at your ongoing complaints and they did not find them substantial, but for some reason you want Dhamma Wheel to be run according to your lights.
As I understand it, this suggestion that I have placed here in the suggestion box has been rejected as invalid because I you believe I am wrong in my observation that the mod/admin team sometimes engages in ridicule and dismissiveness. That's fine. You are free to reject my suggestion.
Well, your example, as has been pointed out to you was not a very good one, but the question is, why dredge up old stuff? It really serves no purpose. What would be functional would be, as soon as it happens, to report it, to draw attention to it, but also keep in mind, that your idea that moderators have to be held to some extraordinary standard has not been accepted to the team. All of us can be held accountable to the TOS as with any other member here.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Annapurna
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Annapurna » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:52 am

Jechbi wrote:I would suggest that members of the mod/admin team refrain from characterizing member posts as possibly just "jokes." From time to time, I have seen it happen that members who were trying to make a valid point from their perspective are told in-thread that it appeared they might just be joking. Here is one example.

I believe the mod/admin team sets the tone for the board. While it is generally positive, there are times when members of the mod/admin team appear to be needlessly dismissive of members. I believe the board would be better served if members of the mod/admin team would take better care not to use ridicule or dismissiveness in their posts.

Thank for listening.
Jechbi....PLEASE.

You are on a CRUSADE, trying to educate adults here, which is a lost battle before it even begins, but can easily create Don Quixotes!

:roll:

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Fede
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Fede » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:58 am

He's not crusading to educate anyone. he's ranting.
And it's still bad form.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Jechbi
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:08 am

No rant was intended.

I'm glad other people have had a much more positive experience here. Best wishes.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Annapurna
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Annapurna » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:20 am

Jechbi wrote:.

One other thing to note: Having made this suggestion at DW's invitation, I now find that the tables are turned, and I am on the defensive, answering further criticism about myself. This, too, has been an ongoing pattern, and it is one of the things I have been concerned about.

Hi, Jechbi, surely no rant was intended. No offence was meant on my side.

But I think this offer is best applied to 'fresh' cases.

You may find that things are different now.

Like, I am vexed when people refer to things I said years ago, -I'm not the same anymore... :smile:

:smile:

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Jechbi
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:41 am

Thank you, Annapurna.
Annapurna wrote:But I think this offer is best applied to 'fresh' cases.
You're probably right, but I understood Retro's invitation differently:
retrofuturist wrote:Clearly you feel there are grievances unresolved about how things work here - would it help you to frame each as a suggestion in the Suggestion Box?

We can all work them through, one at a time. It is still "healthy, collaborative Dhamma discussion" you're after isn't it? If so, here's your chance.
So based on that, I thought I'd send up a trial balloon. I've personally had the experience described in the OP, and my perception is that it has happened to more than one member. At least one other person has expressed to me off-board that sometimes it seems like some members of the mod/admin team are hard on certain members. None of this was meant to be a rant. And as I mentioned in the OP, I think most of the time things are positive.

I'm used to being around people who are accustomed to receiving public criticism. I once witnessed a colleague sit through a meeting during which a prominent public official lavished criticism on him that clearly was personal and unfair. At the end of that, he said, "Thank you," and he smiled. Afterward, he shook hands with the person who had offered the criticism. I was impressed with that. I'm not as good at accepting criticism as he is, but I'm working on it. I also can appreciate how difficult it can be for others to accept criticism that they view as unfair.

I've said before and I'll say again: I appreciate the hard work that goes into Dhamma Wheel, and none of this has ever been intended to diminish from that. I thought I had some legitimate points, based on my experience. I'm told that I don't. That's fine. I'm glad people have good experiences here.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:48 am

Jechbi wrote:I've said before and I'll say again: I appreciate the hard work that goes into Dhamma Wheel, and none of this has ever been intended to diminish from that. I thought I had some legitimate points, based on my experience. I'm told that I don't. That's fine. I'm glad people have good experiences here.
{{{Sigh}}}} No one is telling you do not have legitimate grievances, though i would wonder why you hang on to some of these grievance for so long and put so much energy into them.

It seems, J, you have gotten a lot of strongly negative feedback here on the Dhamma Wheel and on your blog, which really may be telling you something about how you are going about it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Jechbi
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:52 am

tiltbillings wrote:No one is telling you do not have legitimate grievances ...
Then I misunderstood. I thought that's what I was being told.
tiltbillings wrote:... you have gotten a lot of strongly negative feedback here on the Dhamma Wheel and on your blog, which really may be telling you something about how you are going about it.
I agree with you.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

PeterB
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by PeterB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:23 am

I never thought that I would grow nostalgic for Malcom Smith...

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Dan74
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Dan74 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:19 am

PeterB wrote:I never thought that I would grow nostalgic for Malcom Smith...
Image

:D
_/|\_

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Jechbi
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by Jechbi » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:38 am

As much as I sometimes disagreed with Namdrol, he had some remarkable things to offer. He's still a member here, I believe.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

PeterB
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Re: Taking members seriously

Post by PeterB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:41 am

He would certainly have given your self pity short shrift Jechbi.

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