Alm Bowls

[Cittasanto]

how are these made both historically and today?
just wondering if the line in the satipatthana sutta

Just as a skilled turner or his apprentice, when making a long turn, discerns that he is making a long turn, or when making a short turn discerns that he is making a short turn

has anything to do with this also?

[Dhammanando]

Hi Manapa,

how are these made both historically and today?

It seems that in the Buddha's time clay was the commonest material (hence the many Vinaya rules concerned with treating one's almsbowl with great care, to avoid breakage). Nowadays iron and stainless steel are the norm in Thailand, and lacquerware bowls in Burma.

just wondering if the line in the satipatthana sutta

Just as a skilled turner or his apprentice, when making a long turn, discerns that he is making a long turn, or when making a short turn discerns that he is making a short turn has anything to do with this also?

No, a turner would be working with wood, which is a prohibited material for almsbowls. Also, I should think the turners of the Buddha's day are more likely to have been engaged in bodging than bowl-making.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

[SeerObserver]

No, a turner would be working with wood, which is a prohibited material for almsbowls. Also, I should think the turners of the Buddha's day are more likely to have been engaged in bodging than bowl-making.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

Namasakarn, Dhammando Bhikkhu.

What is the basis of this prohibition, and what lies below the surface even further? For example, it is said certain meats are prohibited not just because of acquisition issues, but further because the body may emit smells that inspire vengeful behavior from predatory animals. So wood may be prohibited for sanitary reasons (just a guess), but is there something further as well?

[Fede]

"Bodging" - ! haven't heard that term for ages!

Shame that the name for a skilled craftsman fell into the use of a misnomer for one incapable of completing a task well!

[Dhammanando]

Hi SeerObserver,

What is the basis of this prohibition, and what lies below the surface even further? For example, it is said certain meats are prohibited not just because of acquisition issues, but further because the body may emit smells that inspire vengeful behavior from predatory animals. So wood may be prohibited for sanitary reasons (just a guess), but is there something further as well?

When laying down the prohibition against wooden almsbowls the Buddha didn't give any reason, but issues of hygiene do seem a likely explanation.

Later, prohibitions were laid down against almsbowls made of gold, silver, mother-of-pearl, beryl, crystal, bronze, glass, tin, lead, and copper (as well as a requirement that bowls be made of either clay or iron). These were in response to householders complaining that the monks, in using such bowls, were acting like householders (a stock phrase in Vinaya origin stories).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

[Dhammanando]

"Bodging" - ! haven't heard that term for ages!

Me neither. It betrays our age.

When I was a boy we still had itinerant bodgers in Yorkshire, but I believe they've all gone, with only hobbyists now preserving the craft.

http://www.ukcraftfairs.com/guide-to-bodging.asp

http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/c ... ghamshire/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodging



Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

[Cittasanto]

Thanks Bhante,
for any who are interested here is the bowl chapter on A2I by Thanissaro
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... h07-3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jcsuperstar]

are other people aloud to clean a monk's bowl? can a woman clean a monk's bowl?

[appicchato]

are other people aloud to clean a monk's bowl? can a woman clean a monk's bowl?

My personal experience: I've seen lay people cleaning monk's bowls (not often though)...and can't say that I've seen a female doing it...but is probably copacetic...

[Dhammanando]

Hi JC,

are other people aloud to clean a monk's bowl? can a woman clean a monk's bowl?

They may if the monk lets them, but many monks prefer not to since few laypeople will know all the rules about the proper treatment of an almsbowl.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

[gavesako]

Due to some lingering animistic beliefs in Thailand to do with the nature of women, it is assumed that a woman should not touch anything belonging to a monk, like his robes or bowl. This is not supported by any Vinaya rule as such.

Often laymen washing monks' bowls will scratch it, so monks prefer to do it themselves.