If you develop a samadhi, based on a samatha process...........
If you develop vipassana, and this process...I am hesitant to write any further, but you must understand the process of vipassana as seen here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html
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With that process you can get to the 'real' thing.
Hi RYB, thank you
well I'm from the vipassana viewpoint, and it concerns what is called "pitch black emptiness"
Aggregates cease/stop arising/emptiness ensues/consciousness ceases/'pitch black emptiness' for a moment (or two)(this is the culmination of the vipassana practice mentioned above.)
so according to you the pitch black emptiness is a sign of attainment ?
is pitch black emptiness comparable to the state of unconsciouness ? (sorry just a wondering question)
the cessation of consciousness seems point to nibbana, it is not the same as unconsciousness, but can one be misled ?.
anyway, the point is the state called "pitch black emptiness" understood by different people as not good for insight progress as reported is previous posts:
...After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. .....
Jack Kornfield's reflections:
In Mahasi’s model, enlightenment—or at least stream-entry, the first taste of nirvana—comes in the form of a cessation of experience, arising out of the deepest state of concentration and attention, when the body and mind are dissolved, the experience of the ordinary senses ceases, and we rest in perfect equanimity. We open into that which is unconditioned, timeless, and liberating: nirvana. Like Zen satori, this moment brings a whole new way of knowing. But there are a lot of questions around this kind of moment. Sometimes it seems to have enormously transformative effects on people. Other times people have this moment of experience and aren’t really changed by it at all. Sometimes they’re not even sure what happened.
Alexei wrote : Ven. Pa-Auk Sayadaw calls a similar state as "falling into bhavanga":......
Both types of concentration have the pañibhàga-nimitta as their object. The only difference between them is that in access concentration the jhàna factors are not fully developed. For this reason bhavanga mind states still occur, and one can fall into bhavanga (life-continuum consciousness). The meditator will say that everything stopped, and may even think it is Nibbàna. In reality the mind has not stopped, but the meditator is just not sufficiently skilled to discern this, because the bhavanga mind states are very subtle.
The meditator will say that everything stopped, or may think it is Nibbàna, and say: ‘I knew nothing then.’ If he practises in this way, he can eventually stay in bhavanga for a long time. In any kind of practice, be it good or bad, one will achieve one’s aim, if one tries again and again. ‘Practice makes perfect.’ In this case too, if he tries again and again, in the same way, he may fall into bhavanga for a long time.
If a meditator thinks it is Nibbàna, this idea is a very big ‘rock’ blocking the way to Nibbàna. If he does not remove this big ‘rock’, he cannot attain Nibbàna. Why does this idea occur? Many meditators think that a disciple (sàvaka) cannot know mentality-materiality as taught by the Buddha. So they do not think it is necessary to develop sufficiently deep concentration in order to discern mentality-materiality, and their causes, as taught by the Buddha. Thus their concentration is only weak, and bhavanga mind states still occur, because the jhàna factors too are weak. The concentration cannot be maintained for a long time. If one purposely practises to fall into bhavanga, one will achieve one’s aim, but it is not Nibbàna.
i'm still a little bit confused, something 's missing...