Why not ordain?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Hanzze
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Hanzze » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:57 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Ben
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Ben » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:03 am

Thanks Jack or sharing your experience.
I appreciate it.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Ben
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Ben » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:06 am

tiltbillings wrote: And never be so sure about what will or will not hurt you.
SADHU!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:07 am

Hanzze wrote:You are awesome Ven. Future Bhikkhu, take care of you pure heart. I am very happy to get in touch with you.
May you continue to give many the chance to remember a time when right and wrong did not exist.


_/\_
with deep respect
Thankyou for your support. It is much appreciated.

With metta and returned deep respect

Aaron

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha

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Phra Chuntawongso
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Phra Chuntawongso » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:10 am

Hi Jack.Thanks for your post about your experience.
A good warning for the overly romantic.It is not all a bed of roses.(Not all bad either)
No scorpions in my kuti yet,but when the weather doesn't suit them they will come.(Thus have I heard)
With metta,
Phra Greg
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:13 am

Since I am a lady, I will wait until the most opportune moment to choose ordination because unlike men, I can't give my vows back, so I can't have a single thing tying me to householder life. I can't have debts (which I do have right now), I can't have dependents (Not that I want any), I have to be in good health which might be a problem because I can't tell what the future might hold other than what I make of it, and I have asthma right now which might prevent me from the ability to ordain due to being chronic, and I'm not sure if the Vinaya says this, but I don't think a person with chronic, serious, or communicable diseases can go forth. Don't quote me on that, because I'm not 100% sure. It might have only been in the commentaries under the "evil illnesses" section of the rules. So either way, you can see I have carefully considered ordainment, but I do not think I am ready for it. Much less if there will be a preceptor, (specifically a Maha Theri) available for me to ordain. It's sink or swim today with now's Bhikkhunī ordinations. At least they have become available in some traditions. I am thankful being a woman isn't going to be the total reason not to.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:15 am

I just wanted all to know that I hope it is hard. Why else would I become a Bhikkhu, to live a life of luxury?

To tilt, I know I must experience it first...

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha

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Ben
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Ben » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:17 am

Future Bhikkhu wrote:Many have said that the ordained life is not very nice. I realise that there are the hardships but have not heard of any positive things. I this just the way people are? I am open but things are beggining to close with all the comments. It is almost like people are saying that I shouldn't become ordained because they don't like the idea. I understand what you are saying about the meditation. I never said I would not. Anyway :offtopic:
No.

As anyone who has practiced Dhamma for any length of time, be it an ordained or lay member of the community, they will be able to attest that practicing Dhamma is akin to swimming against the tide. Practicing Dhamma is at times extraordinarily difficult because one is restraining one's behaviours through sila (morality), mastering the unruly mind through the development of samadhi, and eradicating the root defilements at the depth of the mind through developing vipassana. Its not an easy path, but one that will lead one to the end of suffering.
Why don't you become ordained?
My responsibility to my family. Let me just say here that the lay-life is by no means 'second rate'.

In your situation, I recommend that you get established on the path - practice generosity, sila, study the texts and do some short courses offering anapana meditation. Then in a couple or so years, look at doing a residential retreat of vipassana. Develop your daily practice as a lay-person for a number of years before seriously considering ordination.
I hope that makes sense.

Bne
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:19 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:Since I am a lady, I will wait until the most opportune moment to choose ordination because unlike men, I can't give my vows back, so I can't have a single thing tying me to householder life. I can't have debts (which I do have right now), I can't have dependents (Not that I want any), I have to be in good health which might be a problem because I can't tell what the future might hold other than what I make of it, and I have asthma right now which might prevent me from the ability to ordain due to being chronic, and I'm not sure if the Vinaya says this, but I don't think a person with chronic, serious, or communicable diseases can go forth. Don't quote me on that, because I'm not 100% sure. It might have only been in the commentaries under the "evil illnesses" section of the rules. So either way, you can see I have carefully considered ordainment, but I do not think I am ready for it. Much less if there will be a preceptor, (specifically a Maha Theri) available for me to ordain. It's sink or swim today with now's Bhikkhunī ordinations. At least they have become available in some traditions. I am thankful being a woman isn't going to be the total reason not to.
Your reasons are just. I can't imagine how hard it would be for a lady to ordain. Keep striving.

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:24 am

Phra Chuntawongso wrote:Hi Jack.Thanks for your post about your experience.
A good warning for the overly romantic.It is not all a bed of roses.(Not all bad either)
No scorpions in my kuti yet,but when the weather doesn't suit them they will come.(Thus have I heard)
With metta,
Phra Greg
During my stay in at Wat Bawon in Bangkok, I had one of these in my room:

Image

It scared the bejesus out of me, and it was a fast as lightning. I did manage to catch it and evict it, giving it, I hoped, a better home, but any home would have been better.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Future Bhikkhu
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Future Bhikkhu » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:25 am

My responsibility to my family. Let me just say here that the lay-life is by no means 'second rate'.
I never claimed it to be second rate. It is just an alternative path. All I wish to hear is why you did not or do not choose the option of becoming a Bhikkhu or Bhikkuni.

With metta

:anjali:
The mind is everything; what you think you become.
-The Buddha

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:27 am

That's cool looking but I think they bite and are poisonous aren't they? Wow living in a Kuti's gotta be cool. By the way where was it again Tilt? I don't remember if you mentioned it already where you lived in that time.

I had a friend with a defanged Chilean Rose haired one who tried to see if he could scare me with it. He was surprised.
Image

So fuzzy!
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:29 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:That's cool looking but I think they bite and are poisonous aren't they?
Only mildly so, as I found out years later.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Euclid
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Euclid » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:37 am

Future Bhikkhu wrote:I just wanted all to know that I hope it is hard.
Be careful what you wish for :stirthepot:

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Ben
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Re: Why not ordain?

Post by Ben » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:02 am

Future Bhikkhu wrote:
My responsibility to my family. Let me just say here that the lay-life is by no means 'second rate'.
I never claimed it to be second rate.
I didn't suggest that you did. I only mention it as it is an underlying assumption by many (but not all) lay Buddhists.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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