Buddhism and Abortion.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Individual
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Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Individual »

A recent story about the Catholic Church got me thinking:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5375 ... unication/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A 9-year-old Brazilian girl was raped by her step-father and became pregnant. She got an abortion (abortions are illegal in Brazil) and so the local bishop excommunicated both her and the doctor that performed the abortion. When the church heard about it, they defended the decision.

What is the view of abortion in Buddhism and as a Buddhist, what is your opinion of the above situation?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Ceisiwr »

To me abortion is killing, even if you dont reguard it as a person at the early stages your still depriving a being of life later on so you have killed it, that being said i dont agree that one should be punished even further if they have an abortion in an extreme case such as this
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Individual
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Individual »

clw_uk wrote:To me abortion is killing, even if you dont reguard it as a person at the early stages your still depriving a being of life later on so you have killed it, that being said i dont agree that one should be punished even further if they have an abortion in an extreme case such as this
I think the golden rule is a good rule of thumb. In 99% of cases, I would not want to be aborted, but there is that tiny percentage of situations where I would rather die painfully and be reborn elsewhere, than be born as a depraved human being, to a depraved family.
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thecap
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by thecap »

Since as a man I can't become pregnant, I don't know. It would be conceited of me to decide over the life and death of others.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Ceisiwr »

I think the golden rule is a good rule of thumb. In 99% of cases, I would not want to be aborted, but there is that tiny percentage of situations where I would rather die painfully and be reborn elsewhere, than be born as a depraved human being, to a depraved family.

This could be because of a result of kamma though, so you would most likely just be reborn in another painful place
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understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

This case is certainly controversial. For monks, there is no doubt that we cannot recommend abortion (an offence of defeat for monks). However, excommunicating the doctors and others who procure an abortion is very uncompassionate, though I have to agree with the Catholic POV that killing the foetus (two in this case) is still the unwholesome deed of killing human beings, whatever the circumstances.

Ajahn Brahmavamso's Dhamma Talk on Euthanasia and Abortion is worth watching.
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kc2dpt
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by kc2dpt »

Individual wrote:What is the view of abortion in Buddhism?
Abortion is killing.
as a Buddhist, what is your opinion of the above situation?
There is no such thing as excommunicating lay people in Buddhism. A being is heir to their kamma. That is all that is necessary.
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pink_trike
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by pink_trike »

Buddhism's view of abortion:

The practice and study of the Dharma can beneficially inform our decision-making processes regarding our personal and social issues, but to the best of my knowledge there is no view or rule in Buddhism that specifically mentions abortion. Individual Buddhists will have their own views on abortion, but let's hope that Buddhism doesn't have a view on abortion beyond plainly "abortion is dissatisfactory".

---

My view of abortion:

Imo, it is a woman's choice - and that choice should be legally protected for as long as society doesn't commit to providing healthy alternatives to unwanted pregnancy and abortion, and for as long as it doesn't support the development of a meaningful and effective social code. Abortion needs to remain legal because in a world with multiple billions of people (and rapidly growing) - making it illegal without a massively funded pregnancy prevention campaign and sufficient law enforcement resources to police it would cause the underground market to explode and flourish and many lives will be lost worldwide. Making it illegal without dealing with the consequences is a very clear example of idiot compassion - shoving the problem under the carpet. Keeping it legal keeps it visible. It must be kept safely legal within the medical environment until hopefully our society matures and finds a meaningful, beneficial social code to live by that eliminates the perceived needs for abortion.

---

My practice regarding abortion:

I've known women in the past who have had an abortion, and I hope that no women I know now will ever need one, but if so, I'll offer judgement-free care...I think this is really the best of what the Dharma teaches us. Done is done. We can help them heal and begin again, hopefully having found a bit of wisdom in their experience.

---

My opinion on the situation in the OP's post:

The church offered nothing but punishment? That is a failed institution.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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zavk
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by zavk »

Couldn't have said it better, PT. :anjali:

I personally know someone very close to me who has gone through an abortion when she was a teenager. Your post reminds us that abortion is never simply a case of individual weakness or failing. It is a social issue. It is a social responsibility. This is not to say that individuals or groups cannot take a position against abortion. But any such position we might take should remain sensitive to the real suffering of others, to the complex conditions that give rise to such suffering and which leaves a woman little option but to bear the consequences of her own decisions.

It seems that the challenge for Buddhism as an institution is to find ways to respond to this truth of samsara even whilst it advocates its position of non-killing. It has to meet this challenge if it is not to fall out of step with society, as some other religious institutions have. And to this end, thanks for starting this thread Individual, for if Buddhism is to respond to such a conundrum, surely the impulse has to come from 'bottom-up'--from you and me and other fellow Buddhists.

:anjali:


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cooran
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

The questions ought to be "What did the Buddha teach about the beginning of life?" and "What did the Buddha teach about the destroying of life?"

Having worked for over ten years in an acute hospital in a poor area, I was frequently dealing with women who were pregnant and didn't want to be. Some were too young (youngest was 12 years, many were a couple of years older), some were pregnant as the result of rape, incest, affected by drugs or alcohol, some had had a relationship breakdown, a few had contaception failures.

As a buddhist, and one who accepts the Teachings that a Being takes rebirth when the ovum is fertilised, I was presented daily with these challenges. How was I to work in a system with legal abortions up to 19 weeks and 6 days gestation, paid for by the State under Medicare, distressed clients, and deal with my own ethical understanding of things as they really are?

Apart from legal issues surrounding the impregnation of very underage girls, rape and incest, I found the best way to handle interaction with the majority of women was to discuss all options (giving birth and keeping the babe, abortion, adoption, family sharing, and fostering). I would not 'lean' towards any option. I would give the woman printed information on all options and contact numbers, without discrimination. She would then take the information away and make her own decision. On a few occasions, I accompanied women to the abortion clinic and supported them afterwards if they were completely alone.

A little light reading for your delectation:

What were the Buddha's views on abortion?
Practicing Buddhists observe the five precepts as a foundation for the moral life that spiritual progress requires. The first of these precepts is to "refrain from destroying living creatures." Because Theravada Buddhism regards human life as beginning at the moment of conception,1 killing a fetus implies killing a human being, making abortion patently incompatible with the first precept.
One indication of the seriousness with which the Buddha regarded abortion is found in the Vinaya, the collection of texts that define the conduct and duties of Buddhist monastics. According to the Vinaya, if a bhikkhu or bhikkhuni should facilitate an abortion, or if a woman should get an abortion based on their recommendation, then that bhikkhu or bhikkhuni is immediately expelled from the Sangha, having broken one of the four cardinal rules of monastic conduct.2
Notes
1. According to the Pali texts, conception occurs when three things are simultaneously present: the mother (i.e., a fertile egg), the father (a sperm cell), and the gandhabba (the kammic energy of the being that is seeking rebirth). If all three successfully coincide, human consciousness arises in the fertilized ovum and rebirth occurs. For a description of this process, see the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta (MN 38). See Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of this sutta (along with helpful footnotes) in "The Middle Length Discourse of the Buddha" (Boston: Wisdom Publications, 1995).
2. This rule (Parajika #3), which applies equally to bhikkhunis as well as bhikkhus, states:
Should any bhikkhu [or bhikkhuni] intentionally deprive a human being of life, or search for an assassin for him, or praise the advantages of death, or incite him to die (thus): "My good man, what use is this wretched, miserable life to you? Death would be better for you than life," or with such an idea in mind, such a purpose in mind, should in various ways praise the advantages of death or incite him to die, he [she] also is defeated and no longer in communion.
The word-commentary to this rule makes clear that abortion counts as "intentionally depriving a human being of life." See The Buddhist Monastic Code, Vol. I
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... l#abortion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the instructions to every new monk:
§ 10. "A monk who has been accepted should not deprive a living being of life, even if it is only a black or white ant. Any monk who purposely deprives a human being of life, even to the extent of causing an abortion, is not a contemplative, not a son of the Sakyan.
"Just as a solid block of stone broken in two cannot be joined together again, in the same way a monk who has purposely deprived a human being of life is not a contemplative, not a son of the Sakyan. You are not to do this for the rest of your life."
— Mv I.78.2
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... lence.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Abortion is of course a different matter. Since this involves the taking of life, it contravenes the First Precept. It can only be condoned in cases of serious health hazards, where it may represent the lesser evil.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buddhism and the Morality of Abortion - By Michael G. Barnhart... Kingsborough, CUNY
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/abortion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JOURNAL OF BUDDHIST ETHICS VOLUME 2: 1995 105-124 - RESEARCH ARTICLE: BUDDHISM AND MEDICAL ETHICS: A BIBLIOGRAPHIC INTRODUCTION JAMES J. HUGHES Center for Clinical Medical Ethics University of DAMIEN KEOWN Goldsmiths, University of London
http://www.pac-its.psu.edu/pub/jbe/vol2/hughes.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Rui Sousa
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Rui Sousa »

Individual wrote:what is your opinion of the above situation?
A being that is raped as a child, becoming pregnant before reaching physical maturity, is indeed an extreme case. First of all I think that such a child needs support to overcome the violence of which she was a victim. As so does her mother, who made the though decision of aborting her two grandsons.

The doctors also had to make a though decision, according to the article they "carried it out for fear that the slim girl would not survive carrying the foetuses to term".

My position regarding abortion is that it is killing and should not be done, I believe that if in a position of deciding whether to abort or not I would choose not to. But if someone decides to perform abortion I will offer my help.
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by kc2dpt »

We seem to be attempting to answer any different questions at once. I wonder which of these the OP wished to discuss?

What does Buddhism teach regarding the performing of, or advising of, abortion?
What does Buddhism teach regarding counseling those who are considering abortion?
What does Buddhism teach regarding our attitude to those who have had an abortion?
What does Buddhism teach regarding trying to pass laws which are in line with the teachings?

Let us remember in our discussion that these are separate issues. For example, just because we might say abortion is unwholesome, that doesn't in itself tell us how we are to treat those who have had an abortion.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Snowmelt »

Chris wrote:Hello all,

[long post ... see above]

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A missive from the coal face: a very well composed posting, Chris. I find your signature very pertinent, too.
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by Cittasanto »

I think each case should be considered on its own merits, there re medical reasons abortions are carried out, as well as reasons which I think are less than adequate, but at the end of the day I think it is a matter of principle that there should be adequate non-judgmental support for those who go through with an abortion and those who go full term, by both society and the Authorities be they State or Religious.
I would hate to be in her situation, and would equally hate being a father of a girl in that situation, it is not a matter of principles I think are relevant and force on every situation but a matter of what is best in the situation that is present.
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kc2dpt
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Re: Buddhism and Abortion.

Post by kc2dpt »

Manapa wrote:I think it is a matter of principle that there should be adequate non-judgmental support for those who go through with an abortion and those who go full term
I agree.
Manapa wrote:it is not a matter of principles I think are relevant and force on every situation but a matter of what is best in the situation that is present.
I wonder if you have any support from the Buddhist teachings for this stance? Any instance of the Buddha praising a violation of the precepts because of this or that difficult situation?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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