Human reborn as Human

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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andyn
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Human reborn as Human

Post by andyn »

In the Sutra, Buddha said "Those whose in human form die and reborn as human can be compared to the dirt in my finger, while those in human form die and reborn in the realm of hungry ghosts, animals, and hells can be compared to the dirt in of the whole earth". If this is to understand literally, the ratio of dirt in the whole earth is more than billions of billions of dirt in finger, that means if our current earth population of 6.9 billion people die, then nobody will be reborn as human? Thus, doesn't making so much sense, since then our cultivation would be wasted?
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Aloka
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by Aloka »

Hi andyn,

Perhaps it isn't meant to be interpreted literally ?


Kind regards,

Aloka
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ground
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by ground »

336. Bhikkhus, in the peninsular of India there are a few pleasant orchards, forests, outstanding sites, stretches of water but many irregular blocks of land, irregular rivers flowing disorderly, forming uneven shapes. In the same manner a few humans who leave the human corpse are born among humans many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

337. In the same manner a few gods that leave divinity are reborn among gods many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

338. In the same manner a few gods that leave divinity are reborn as humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

339.Bhikkhus, in the same manner a few released from hell are reborn human, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.

340.Bhikkhus, a few released from hell are reborn with the gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few who leave behind the animal world are reborn as humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few who leave behind the animal world are reborn as gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few ghosts are reborn among humans, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts. In the same manner a few ghosts are reborn among gods, many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-tipitaka/A ... n1-296.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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andyn
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by andyn »

Aloka wrote:Hi andyn,

Perhaps it isn't meant to be interpreted literally ?

Kind regards,

Aloka
The Buddha's word are said to be of absolute truthfulness and he knows all. I'm so depressed when reading this though.
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ground
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by ground »

andyn wrote:I'm so depressed when reading this though.
Actually there is reason to rejoice. Why? Because the Buddha taught the way to end this.

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octathlon
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by octathlon »

What about the huge increase in human population in the last 200 years? There were only < 200 million people during Buddha's time and population didn't pass 1 billion until 1800. Now there are 7 billion. So in Buddha's time the population was about a quarter of 1% of the current population. There is much more opportunity for beings to be born as human now. Does it have anything to do with the merit of beings? Or, does Buddhism teach that there are human realms other than Earth so that Earth's population is irrelevant?
:thinking:
I suspect this subject is not mentioned anywhere. :juggling:
andyn
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by andyn »

Bhikkhus, in the peninsular of India there are a few pleasant orchards, forests, outstanding sites, stretches of water but many irregular blocks of land, irregular rivers flowing disorderly, forming uneven shapes. In the same manner a few humans who leave the human corpse are born among humans many more are reborn in hell, in the animal world and as ghosts.
In the example above, however the ratio is much much smaller when comparing dust in great earth against dust in fingernail.
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cooran
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by cooran »

octathlon wrote:What about the huge increase in human population in the last 200 years? There were only < 200 million people during Buddha's time and population didn't pass 1 billion until 1800. Now there are 7 billion. So in Buddha's time the population was about a quarter of 1% of the current population. There is much more opportunity for beings to be born as human now. Does it have anything to do with the merit of beings? Or, does Buddhism teach that there are human realms other than Earth so that Earth's population is irrelevant?
:thinking:
I suspect this subject is not mentioned anywhere. :juggling:
Not so Octathlon …. There would be uncountable worlds which have the equivalent of conscious human life throughout the measureless universe.

Just because the numbers reborn as humans on this tiny speck of dust in this particular solar system have increased, it doesn’t mean anything significant at all. Just as a decrease elsewhere isn’t particularly significant. We are not fenced in like horses in a particular paddock.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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octathlon
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by octathlon »

cooran wrote:
octathlon wrote: ...
...
I suspect this subject is not mentioned anywhere. :juggling:
Not so Octathlon …. There would be uncountable worlds which have the equivalent of conscious human life throughout the measureless universe.

Just because the numbers reborn as humans on this tiny speck of dust in this particular solar system have increased, it doesn’t mean anything significant at all. Just as a decrease elsewhere isn’t particularly significant. We are not fenced in like horses in a particular paddock.

with metta
Chris
Thank you Chris,
Yes, that is the logical conclusion. But I wonder, is it mentioned in the suttas?
Anicca
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by Anicca »

Howdy Octathlon!
octathlon wrote:is it mentioned in the suttas?
This is not the only sutta - but is this mention what you mean?
From AN 10.29 Kosala Sutta: The Kosalan
"As far as the sun & moon revolve, illumining the directions with their light, there extends the thousand-fold cosmos. In that thousand-fold cosmos there are a thousand moons, a thousand suns, a thousand Sunerus — kings of mountains; a thousand Rose-apple continents, [1] a thousand Deathless Ox-cart [continents], a thousand northern Kuru [continents], a thousand eastern Videha [continents]; four thousand great oceans, four thousand Great Kings, a thousand [heavens of the] Four Great Kings, a thousand [heavens of the] Thirty-three, a thousand [heavens of the] Yamas, a thousand [heavens of the] Tusitas, a thousand heavens of the Nimmanaratis, a thousand heavens of the Paranimmitavasavattis, [2] and a thousand Brahma worlds.
metta
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Kim OHara
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by Kim OHara »

andyn wrote: The Buddha's word are said to be of absolute truthfulness and he knows all. I'm so depressed when reading this though.
Hi, andyn,
"Absolute truthfulness" is not the same as "literal truthfulness". Metaphors, analogies and parables may be used to point to the truth but are not literally true, and the Buddha used all of them as occasion demanded.
Relax a bit, and take more notice of the meaning and less of the words.

:namaste:
Kim
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ground
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by ground »

Kim O'Hara wrote:Metaphors, analogies and parables may be used to point to the truth but are not literally true, and the Buddha used all of them as occasion demanded.

Relax a bit, and take more notice of the meaning and less of the words.

:namaste:
Kim
Words do have meaning if they belong to common language. There is no need to go beyond the conventional meaning in the first place.
"Metaphors, analogies and parables" are conventionally known as such and can be detected in a given context without doubt and words are conventionally known through their meanings. To decide that a whole teaching is a "Metaphor, analogy or parable" based on the rejection of the conventional meaning of words is problematic if the teaching as such cannot be detected as "Metaphor, analogy or parable" in the first place without doubt.

But again: There is no need to get depressed about this teaching. Why? Because the Buddha has taught the way to end this misery. And he himself has shown how to help others to end this misery.


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Individual
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by Individual »

Aloka wrote:Hi andyn,

Perhaps it isn't meant to be interpreted literally ?


Kind regards,

Aloka
:thanks:
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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octathlon
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by octathlon »

Anicca wrote: This is not the only sutta - but is this mention what you mean?
Hi Anicca,
I guess so! :D
Thanks,
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Virgo
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Re: Human reborn as Human

Post by Virgo »

Hello, people born in other realms such as hell, hungry ghosts, deva realms, etc. can be reborn as humans based on some past good kamma, this means there will always be people being born into the human realm. What the Buddha seems to be saying is that most humans go to the lower realms after they die because of generating negative kamma, that is all. Taken altogher, this doesn't mean that the human population must decrease.

Kevin
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