Looking for a term.
Looking for a term.
I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).
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Re: Looking for a term.
Don't know. Is it the same as an 'eternal-hasnamuss-individual'?
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Re: Looking for a term.
Skt: icchantikaJason wrote:I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Looking for a term.
They are known as the Tea Party Movement.Jason wrote:I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Re: Looking for a term.
Which is a Mahayana concept.; I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.Paññāsikhara wrote:Skt: icchantikaJason wrote:I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Looking for a term.
Hello Jason, Tilt, all,
I'm checking with dsg friends, and will let you know if there is anything further from a Theravada perspective.
with metta
Chris
I'm checking with dsg friends, and will let you know if there is anything further from a Theravada perspective.
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Looking for a term.
They know everything over there, do they?cooran wrote:Hello Jason, Tilt, all,
I'm checking with dsg friends, and will let you know if there is anything further from a Theravada perspective.
with metta
Chris
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Looking for a term.
Buswell mentions the Theravāda idea of ekantakāḷaka from the Abhidhamma Puggalapaññatti and its commentary here.tiltbillings wrote:I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.
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Re: Looking for a term.
And just when you think there is nothing new to know.Ñāṇa wrote:Buswell mentions the Theravāda idea of ekantakāḷaka from the Abhidhamma Puggalapaññatti and its commentary here.tiltbillings wrote:I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=hu0oIf0 ... &q&f=false : icchantika
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Looking for a term.
Obviously not tilt!tiltbillings wrote:They know everything over there, do they?
I've just given them the last two links.
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: Looking for a term.
I think that was it, although I didn't realize it was a Mahayana concept. Thanks for your help everyone.Paññāsikhara wrote:Skt: icchantikaJason wrote:I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).
leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)
leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)
Re: Looking for a term.
http://www.noblepath.info/recommended_b ... ayadaw.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;A Padaparama is an individual who, though he
encounters a Buddha Sàsana, and though he puts forth
the utmost possible effort in both the study and practice
of the Dhamma, cannot attain the Paths and the Fruits
within this lifetime. All that he can do is to accumulate
good habits and potentials (vàsanà).
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
Re: Looking for a term.
In the Mahāsaccakasutta there is a formula “abhabbā va te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya”: they are incapable (abhabba) of knowing, seeing and of the ultimate awakening. It speaks about those have not withdrawn from sense-pleasures, thus it is not an intrinsic handicap but a result of lack of practice.
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Re: Looking for a term.
Yes, apart from Padarama individuals, there is another much more common type.Jason wrote:I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?
I remember a talk given by Chanymay Sayādaw at the London Buddhist Vihāra in Chiswick many moons ago. He said words to this effect:
There is one person here who is incapable of realising nibbāna. Shall I tell you who it is?
... Deadly silence as everyone thinks, “Don't tell everybody about me.”
...
...
...
...
It is the lazy person. The lazy person is incapable of realising nibbāna.
Blog • Pāli Fonts • In This Very Life • Buddhist Chronicles • Software (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)
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Re: Looking for a term.
The term padaparama is discussed in the Puggalapaññatti:
The commentary to this passage says:katamo ca puggalo padaparamo? yassa puggalassa bahumpi suṇato bahumpi bhaṇato bahumpi dhārayato bahumpi vācayato na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hoti ayaṃ vuccati puggalo "padaparamo".
And what person is meant by padaparama? When, though a certain person hears much, preaches to much, bears in mind much, speaks much, there is not penetration of the truth in that life, this is said to be a person who is "padaparama".
Puggalapaññatti (catukkapuggalapaññatti)
It is clear, though, that this sort of being may attain these states in a future existence. DA says, for example:Byañjanapadameva paramaṃ assāti padaparamo. Na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hotīti na tena attabhāvena jhānaṃ vā vipassanaṃ vā maggaṃ vā phalaṃ vā nibbattetuṃ sakkotīti attho.
The mere word made up of letters is the highest (attainment) for him, thus he is padaparama. The meaning of "na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hoti" is that there is not the potential for the production of jhaana, vipassana, magga or phala by that incarnation (attabhaava).
Puggalapaññatti-aṭṭhakathā Catukkaniddesavaṇṇanā
The term abbhaba is discussed in the Vibhanga:tattha tiṇṇaṃ puggalānaṃ imasmiṃyeva attabhāve bhagavato dhammadesanā atthaṃ sādheti, padaparamānaṃ anāgate vāsanatthāya hoti.
Therein, the Blessed One's exposition of the dhamma clarifies the meaning in this very life for three persons. It is for the purpose of predisposition in the future for the padaparama.
DA Mahāpadānasuttavaṇṇanā
"katame sattā abhabbā? ye te sattā kammāvaraṇena samannāgatā kilesāvaraṇena samannāgatā vipākāvaraṇena samannāgatā assaddhā acchandikā duppaññā abhabbā niyāmaṃ okkamituṃ kusalesu dhammesu sammattaṃ, ime te sattā abhabbā.
Which beings are the incapables? Whatever beings possess the obstruction of deeds, who possess the obstruction of defilements, who possess the obstruction of retribution, who are faithless, uninterested, of little wisdom, are unable to enter into the way of rightness in regards to wholesome realities, all such beings are incapables.
Vibhaṅga (ñāṇavibhaṅgo, mātikā, dasakaniddeso)