The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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manas
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The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by manas » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:01 am

Writing in a topic about sex desire, celibacy etc, I described both female AND (in order to be equal and fair) male sexual organs in a way that sounded quite unappealing. What I wrote was true, I guess; ultimately, sex desire must be abandoned utterly, and for one aspiring to total Unbinding, I guess celibacy is a good way to go.

However, in my heart, I don't like how I wrote that anymore. Yes, the female private part leads to a womb. Yes, a monk should not associate intimately with women, and yes asubha bhavana can help one detach from the opposite sex, and sexual obsession, which is clearly a hindrance.

However, a few things. Firstly, not everyone on this Forum either can, nor wants, to observe complete celibacy. Some were already in relationship before becoming Buddhists, some might have gotten married or partnered while being Buddhists, etc etc. I realize today, men and woman can be so much more to each other, than just sexual objects. A good relationship (I have never had one that is satisfying, or where there is the level of trust that could be healing and nurturing) could be, between two good people, a beautiful thing. We should recall, that the Bodhisatta had a consort over many lifetimes, and as i understand it, she helped him many times, including in his final birth, where she provided the opportunity for him to renounce a truly beautiful friendship, in the quest of final peace - as i understand it, this final renunciation was a necessary letting go. Someone had to be that woman. And let us not forget his mother, who carried the Bodhisatta for nine months in her womb, most probably being careful with what she ate, etc, making sure her developing baby was safe and well in her womb. Yes, the female private part 'leads to a uterus', but within such a uterus a Bodhisatta's final body is nourished, just as in all our mothers wombs, we too were similarly nourished.

Sexual obsession isn't a good thing, either in , or out, of relationship. But in the context of a true meeting of minds and hearts, a loving friendship and yes, even with the sexual element added, I think men and women can be much more to each other, than just a trap keeping them from total enlightenment - just as Yashodhara was, for so many lifetimes, for Gotama who became the most recent Buddha.

I just wanted to say, while one stated benefit of final liberation, is no longer ever having to lie in the womb, I wish to express my respect for all women of goodness and virtue, especially mothers who nurture their children and give so much to them, even from their own bodies, the life-giving milk, infused with vital nutrients from their very own blood. Also, for all the good and virtuous women who have been, or are, spiritual companions, who support and encourage their partners, on the long Path to total awakening. It is through a womb, that we all enter this world, men, women, wordlings, and Bodhisasttas alike. I just wanted to say, I regret how i described that aspect of women's bodies in that post. Without women and their wombs, none of us would be here.

:anjali:
Seeking your own happiness,
you should pull out your own arrow:
your own lamentation, longing, & sorrow.

With arrow pulled out,
independent,
attaining peace of awareness,
all grief transcended,
griefless you are
unbound.


(excerpt, Sn 3:8)


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Alīno
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Alīno » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:33 am

What is intresting is that sex is somethink can change. It seems that there is planes of existance where all beings are a-sexual, and that one can change sex from male to female and from female to male. So actualy your girl(boy)fiend should be one's father/mother, or one's best friend in some previous life. :jawdrop: :spy: :toilet:
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Zom » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:44 pm

I realize today, men and woman can be so much more to each other, than just sexual objects.
How about best friends? -) I thought that was obvious, if we are talking about lasting relationships 8-)

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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by binocular » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:09 pm

manas wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:01 am
women can be so much more than just sex objects.
And you want brownie points for that insight?

perkele
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by perkele » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:00 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:09 pm
manas wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:01 am
women can be so much more than just sex objects.
And you want brownie points for that insight?
I figure, he has had (IMO unwarranted) pangs of conscience for saying in another thread that "Sex pleasure is a dead end (much like a woman's vagina, which ultimately leads to a uterus)", which he thought might have come off as "misogynistic" to some.
Hence this long-winded (yet well-written, IMO) text to dispel such a possible impression.

If my estimation of the motive for writing this is correct then this is not about gathering brownie points. It's about erasing/undoing (in this case I think purely imaginary) negative brownie points. Probably you cannot empathize with that.

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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by salayatananirodha » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:09 pm

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.159.than.html wrote:"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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manas
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by manas » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am

perkele wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:00 pm
binocular wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:09 pm
manas wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:01 am
women can be so much more than just sex objects.
And you want brownie points for that insight?
I figure, he has had (IMO unwarranted) pangs of conscience for saying in another thread that "Sex pleasure is a dead end (much like a woman's vagina, which ultimately leads to a uterus)", which he thought might have come off as "misogynistic" to some.
Hence this long-winded (yet well-written, IMO) text to dispel such a possible impression.

If my estimation of the motive for writing this is correct then this is not about gathering brownie points. It's about erasing/undoing (in this case I think purely imaginary) negative brownie points. Probably you cannot empathize with that.
Thank you perkele, for clarifying my intent. Yes, exactly as you inferred: I just felt a bit bad about my casual words in another post, which I was concerned might have upset someone. I just caught up with this topic, had forgotten I wrote it. I guess I didn't have to worry. Just wanted to make sure no-one was offended, that's all. However, I think I've learned not to make a topic like this one again, because now I've got someone who misjudged my intent...anyway the entire topic can be safely locked up now, it's served it's purpose.

:anjali:
Seeking your own happiness,
you should pull out your own arrow:
your own lamentation, longing, & sorrow.

With arrow pulled out,
independent,
attaining peace of awareness,
all grief transcended,
griefless you are
unbound.


(excerpt, Sn 3:8)

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Aloka
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Aloka » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:04 pm

manas wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
perkele wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:00 pm
binocular wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:09 pm

And you want brownie points for that insight?
I figure, he has had (IMO unwarranted) pangs of conscience for saying in another thread that "Sex pleasure is a dead end (much like a woman's vagina, which ultimately leads to a uterus)", which he thought might have come off as "misogynistic" to some.
Hence this long-winded (yet well-written, IMO) text to dispel such a possible impression.

If my estimation of the motive for writing this is correct then this is not about gathering brownie points. It's about erasing/undoing (in this case I think purely imaginary) negative brownie points. Probably you cannot empathize with that.
Thank you perkele, for clarifying my intent. Yes, exactly as you inferred: I just felt a bit bad about my casual words in another post, which I was concerned might have upset someone. I just caught up with this topic, had forgotten I wrote it. I guess I didn't have to worry. Just wanted to make sure no-one was offended, that's all. However, I think I've learned not to make a topic like this one again, because now I've got someone who misjudged my intent...anyway the entire topic can be safely locked up now, it's served it's purpose.

:anjali:
It's also worth taking into consideration that Dhamma Wheel is not an all-male members only forum, so there are female practitioners here who understandably may find certain comments offensive that some male members make about women and their bodies, as well as seemingly appearing to regard women as somehow inferior "other" if they don't have a penis dangling in their pants.
SOMA

Setting at Savatthi. Then, in the morning, the bhikkhuni Soma dressed and, taking bowl and robe, entered Savatthi for alms.When she had walked for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Blind Men's Grove for the day's abiding. Having plunged into the Blind Men's Grove, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

Then Mara the Evil One, desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in the bhikkhuni Soma, desiring to make her fall away from concentration, approached her and addressed her in verse:

4. "That state so hard to achieve
Which is to be attained by the seers,
Can't be attained by a woman
With her two-fingered wisdom."

Then it occurred to the bhikkhuni Soma: "Now who is this that recited the verse — a human being or a non-human being?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited the verse desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in me, desiring to make me fall away from concentration."

Then the bhikkhuni Soma, having understood, "This is Mara the Evil One," replied to him in verses:

5. "What does womanhood matter at all
When the mind is concentrated well,
When knowledge flows on steadily
As one sees correctly into Dhamma.

6. One to whom it might occur,
'I'm a woman' or 'I'm a man'
Or 'I'm anything at all' —
Is fit for Mara to address."

Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Soma knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... bl143.html

:anjali:

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Pondera
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Pondera » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:38 am

It's also worth taking into consideration that Dhamma Wheel is not an all-male members only forum, so there are female practitioners here who understandably may find certain comments offensive that some male members make about women and their bodies, as well as seemingly appearing to regard women as somehow inferior "other" if they don't have a penis dangling in their pants.
With all due respect, I think it’s a misconception that the penis is “dangling” between the man’s legs. The “testicles” perhaps. But in my experience “the penis” more often than not behaves like a frightened turtle - that is unless it becomes aroused. Just a clarification.

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Aloka
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Aloka » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:02 am

Pondera wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:38 am
It's also worth taking into consideration that Dhamma Wheel is not an all-male members only forum, so there are female practitioners here who understandably may find certain comments offensive that some male members make about women and their bodies, as well as seemingly appearing to regard women as somehow inferior "other" if they don't have a penis dangling in their pants.
With all due respect, I think it’s a misconception that the penis is “dangling” between the man’s legs. The “testicles” perhaps. But in my experience “the penis” more often than not behaves like a frightened turtle - that is unless it becomes aroused. Just a clarification.
Have you never heard of a "flaccid penis" ? Have a look at some diagrams - and I think that's all I want to say in this topic now, thanks, otherwise my late husband will be turning in his grave. Have a nice day.

:thinking:

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Pondera
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Re: The Bodhisatta entered this world via a womb; and women can be so much more than just sex objects.

Post by Pondera » Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:22 am

Aloka wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:02 am
Pondera wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:38 am
It's also worth taking into consideration that Dhamma Wheel is not an all-male members only forum, so there are female practitioners here who understandably may find certain comments offensive that some male members make about women and their bodies, as well as seemingly appearing to regard women as somehow inferior "other" if they don't have a penis dangling in their pants.
With all due respect, I think it’s a misconception that the penis is “dangling” between the man’s legs. The “testicles” perhaps. But in my experience “the penis” more often than not behaves like a frightened turtle - that is unless it becomes aroused. Just a clarification.
Have you never heard of a "flaccid penis" ? Have a look at some diagrams - and I think that's all I want to say in this topic now, thanks, otherwise my late husband will be turning in his grave. Have a nice day.

:thinking:
Of course. But have you never heard that some are growers and some are showers? Just for clarification of course. I do not mean to offend. But thank you. I will have a nice day. What’s left of it, that is.

And a happy new year!!!

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