Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by confusedlayman »

Nwad wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:54 pm About OP:

I remember when i still practice sexual activity, during the action i used to keep my mind concentrated on one point (into the darkness of the closed eyes) to seclude it from exitation and be able to continue endlessly without ejaculation... :coffee: :meditate: :strawman:
It seems that this "concentrations/seclusion of mind" technique is used by porno actors to control their ejaculation.

It showed me how "emotionless", "senseless", "pleasureless" and "conditioned" sexual activity is, and showed how Dhamma is realy amazing and powerfull :anjali: :bow:
even when I use my own hand, I try to do dependent origination without attributing dweller in anything. its amazing to see how these are simple process, when skin moves it produces sensation and when liquid runs through inside skin of tube, it produces another sensation which is grasped. only grasping and clinging is to be avoided. others things are natural like how when air moves the leaves of trees and branches moves... it takes beyond good and bad and see as agitation of mind vs clear lake mind. but ultimately, we have to stop it if we understand non self, impermanence and suffering
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confusedlayman
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by confusedlayman »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pm
Nwad wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:54 pm About OP:

I remember when i still practice sexual activity, during the action i used to keep my mind concentrated on one point (into the darkness of the closed eyes) to seclude it from exitation and be able to continue endlessly without ejaculation... :coffee: :meditate: :strawman:
It seems that this "concentrations/seclusion of mind" technique is used by porno actors to control their ejaculation.

It showed me how "emotionless", "senseless", "pleasureless" and "conditioned" sexual activity is, and showed how Dhamma is realy amazing and powerfull :anjali: :bow:
even when I use my own hand, I try to do dependent origination without attributing dweller in anything. its amazing to see how these are simple process, when skin moves it produces sensation and when liquid runs through inside skin of tube, it produces another sensation which is grasped. only grasping and clinging is to be avoided. others things are natural like how when air moves the leaves of trees and branches moves... it takes beyond good and bad and see as agitation of mind vs clear lake mind. but ultimately, we have to stop it if we understand non self, impermanence and suffering
some people say ejaculating is wasting many potential buddha to be born. that's not the way it shld be taught to avoid sexual pleasure. sperms are just sperms only if they meet with ovum and other process, it grows to child. so if u waste sperm, u can regenerate again unlimited times. But the problem is if someone has to let go xx pleasure, then they focus on feeling and contemplate it. if feeling of xx activity is not grasped and clinged to, then xx activity has no significance. however nature rewards us for reproducing, so f*** nature for preventing everyone from reaching anagami stage lol
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Alīno
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Alīno »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pm its amazing to see how these are simple process,
Yeah.. Actually if mindfulness and concentration are well established one can find these same pleasant stimulations while urinating... There is no production of hormones so you feel less hight but the feeling on itself is pretty much the same - just stimulation of inner skin.

A lot of our pleasant and unpleasant feelings depends on perception. Often the stimulation (cause) can bee the same, but just by changing conditions around this stimulation it passes from pleasant to neutral or unpleasant...

Peoples don't like while I say that, because it shows the vulgar, low and shameful side of sensual stimulations, but if we watch on it directly - sensual doors stimulation (eye-forms, ear-sound, nose-smell, tongue-taste, skin-tuch, mind-ideas) it's just the same masturbation as with xx... There is information (photons, vibrations, chemicals, pressure, concepts) that penetrates our doors and we want it penetrate us (or don't) more and more ... So understanding this vulgar nature of sensual stimulations one practitioner can develop a wise shame (hiri ottapa) of sensual stimulations, developing calm by this non-agitation, his mind can easyli experiance piti and sukkha born from seclusion, regoicing these piti and sukha ones mind can detach itself from sensual world, even more if he know the path of peace..

But the dukkha of being is so havy, that often peoples have no choice to overcome it, but only by flooding the mind with pleasant sensual stimulations, gladdening the mind with or, si it can forgot suffering. For them it's a the only way to overcome dukkha of the day, or week... The problem is that when there is pleasant there is also unpleasant, and it makes dukkha much more intense, and need of stimulation much more important... People suffer so much because of not knowing the way out, they seek freedom outside, in the world of senses, so they don't see the True Freedom of mind, beyond all conditioned and unsatisfactory things... Once they find the Satisfaction of Uncreated, of stability, of peace, what they will craving for? They are already satisfied, nothing lacks, they feel full... One who have unlimited cake will not seek for a limited cake. A mind that knows the unconditioned will not seek for conditioned things, it's naturally desenchanted...
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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confusedlayman
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by confusedlayman »

Nwad wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:40 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pm its amazing to see how these are simple process,
Yeah.. Actually if mindfulness and concentration are well established one can find these same pleasant stimulations while urinating... There is no production of hormones so you feel less hight but the feeling on itself is pretty much the same - just stimulation of inner skin.

A lot of our pleasant and unpleasant feelings depends on perception. Often the stimulation (cause) can bee the same, but just by changing conditions around this stimulation it passes from pleasant to neutral or unpleasant...

Peoples don't like while I say that, because it shows the vulgar, low and shameful side of sensual stimulations, but if we watch on it directly - sensual doors stimulation (eye-forms, ear-sound, nose-smell, tongue-taste, skin-tuch, mind-ideas) it's just the same masturbation as with xx... There is information (photons, vibrations, chemicals, pressure, concepts) that penetrates our doors and we want it penetrate us (or don't) more and more ... So understanding this vulgar nature of sensual stimulations one practitioner can develop a wise shame (hiri ottapa) of sensual stimulations, developing calm by this non-agitation, his mind can easyli experiance piti and sukkha born from seclusion, regoicing these piti and sukha ones mind can detach itself from sensual world, even more if he know the path of peace..

But the dukkha of being is so havy, that often peoples have no choice to overcome it, but only by flooding the mind with pleasant sensual stimulations, gladdening the mind with or, si it can forgot suffering. For them it's a the only way to overcome dukkha of the day, or week... The problem is that when there is pleasant there is also unpleasant, and it makes dukkha much more intense, and need of stimulation much more important... People suffer so much because of not knowing the way out, they seek freedom outside, in the world of senses, so they don't see the True Freedom of mind, beyond all conditioned and unsatisfactory things... Once they find the Satisfaction of Uncreated, of stability, of peace, what they will craving for? They are already satisfied, nothing lacks, they feel full... One who have unlimited cake will not seek for a limited cake. A mind that knows the unconditioned will not seek for conditioned things, it's naturally desenchanted...
yes. if there is infection in the inside tube of banana, then flow of water (urine or semen) will cause burning hell sensation.
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm As long as Kama consciousness (consciousness with lust for skin or body or sex as condition) don't arise, even if u have sex you won't get result. But there is no way u can have sex without arising of Kama consciousness so even thinking of lustful stuff is arising of Kama conciouness if I'm not wrong. So celibacy means not seeing something in lustful way such that Kama concciousness arises. Buddha never said his monks to think and imagine porn in mind but don't do in real. he told even thoughts should not arise in that way which is celibacy. as long as u involved in producing Kama consciousness depending on the intensity and mastery and clinging tendency along with other karma, you be born in respective plane but can never be born in brahma world I think. but for us buddhist, we stop delighting in feeling arising from lust thoughts or physical sex contact. buddha said lust is responsible for mass rebirth for majority and see how low and gross is feeling of sex compared to jhana and develop dispassion to that feeling of lust.

No one can be attracted to girls/body/anyobject of any sense. Everyone is attracted to only feelings and use boys, girls, objects as tool to get that feeling. if u have sex with girl but no sex feeling arises, instead hunger arises will u do sex again? its all about feeling not about the object that produces the feeling. as long as u don't contemplate feeling, contemplating object alone won't do anything. if u contemplate body as corpse, then instead of having sex with humans, u will use scientific instruments like dildo to get that feeling and it goes on and on.
What happened to you?
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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confusedlayman
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by confusedlayman »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:45 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm As long as Kama consciousness (consciousness with lust for skin or body or sex as condition) don't arise, even if u have sex you won't get result. But there is no way u can have sex without arising of Kama consciousness so even thinking of lustful stuff is arising of Kama conciouness if I'm not wrong. So celibacy means not seeing something in lustful way such that Kama concciousness arises. Buddha never said his monks to think and imagine porn in mind but don't do in real. he told even thoughts should not arise in that way which is celibacy. as long as u involved in producing Kama consciousness depending on the intensity and mastery and clinging tendency along with other karma, you be born in respective plane but can never be born in brahma world I think. but for us buddhist, we stop delighting in feeling arising from lust thoughts or physical sex contact. buddha said lust is responsible for mass rebirth for majority and see how low and gross is feeling of sex compared to jhana and develop dispassion to that feeling of lust.

No one can be attracted to girls/body/anyobject of any sense. Everyone is attracted to only feelings and use boys, girls, objects as tool to get that feeling. if u have sex with girl but no sex feeling arises, instead hunger arises will u do sex again? its all about feeling not about the object that produces the feeling. as long as u don't contemplate feeling, contemplating object alone won't do anything. if u contemplate body as corpse, then instead of having sex with humans, u will use scientific instruments like dildo to get that feeling and it goes on and on.
What happened to you?
Hi rhino,
dont think
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:49 pm
rhinoceroshorn wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:45 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:46 pm As long as Kama consciousness (consciousness with lust for skin or body or sex as condition) don't arise, even if u have sex you won't get result. But there is no way u can have sex without arising of Kama consciousness so even thinking of lustful stuff is arising of Kama conciouness if I'm not wrong. So celibacy means not seeing something in lustful way such that Kama concciousness arises. Buddha never said his monks to think and imagine porn in mind but don't do in real. he told even thoughts should not arise in that way which is celibacy. as long as u involved in producing Kama consciousness depending on the intensity and mastery and clinging tendency along with other karma, you be born in respective plane but can never be born in brahma world I think. but for us buddhist, we stop delighting in feeling arising from lust thoughts or physical sex contact. buddha said lust is responsible for mass rebirth for majority and see how low and gross is feeling of sex compared to jhana and develop dispassion to that feeling of lust.

No one can be attracted to girls/body/anyobject of any sense. Everyone is attracted to only feelings and use boys, girls, objects as tool to get that feeling. if u have sex with girl but no sex feeling arises, instead hunger arises will u do sex again? its all about feeling not about the object that produces the feeling. as long as u don't contemplate feeling, contemplating object alone won't do anything. if u contemplate body as corpse, then instead of having sex with humans, u will use scientific instruments like dildo to get that feeling and it goes on and on.
What happened to you?
Hi rhino,
Hello my friend.
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:49 pmeven when I use my own hand, I try to do dependent origination without attributing dweller in anything. its amazing to see how these are simple process, when skin moves it produces sensation and when liquid runs through inside skin of tube, it produces another sensation which is grasped. only grasping and clinging is to be avoided. others things are natural like how when air moves the leaves of trees and branches moves... it takes beyond good and bad and see as agitation of mind vs clear lake mind. but ultimately, we have to stop it if we understand non self, impermanence and suffering
Absolutely!

If we are slaves to our bodily chemicals, then what have we learned? Truth is hard to swallow because we believe in the illusions. Once we see past the illusion, truths lead to ultimate happiness.

There is no beauty of the body - male or female. It's all an illusion. It is all empty. How liberating!

Peace and enlightenment. :anjali:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Mahabrahma »

squizzlebizzle wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 5:48 amOne disciple of the Buddha who broke the monastic rule against sex is told he would be better off if he stuck his penis in burning coals or in the mouth of a poisonous snake than in a woman.
Do you know the Buddha at all? This is the kind of nonsense lies spread about "what the Buddha said" in order to defame Him and hurt His followers. The Buddha would rather you have sex with beautiful women all of your life instead of injuring your private part, if someone hurt themselves like that, that would be very serious abuse and the person who told them to do it would be guilty of a very serious crime. The Buddha Loves you, and you are a human being. Of course celibacy is important, but there should be no extremes taken. Celibacy really means only having consensual sex with people you fully Love when applicable according to Spiritual principles, or fully abstaining for Spiritual reasons, and there is a great lot about what those are in Buddhism. However, don't ever hurt yourself and this "rather this rather that" nonsense is not the way Buddha speaks of falsehood, because you would not rather do either false act, though the injury is far worse than breaking regular celibacy, especially in violating a snake, please have respect for all life as well as your own body.

I say this with full certainty.
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by SDC »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:35 pm
One disciple of the Buddha who broke the monastic rule against sex is told he would be better off if he stuck his penis in burning coals or in the mouth of a poisonous snake than in a woman.
Do you know the Buddha at all? This is the kind of nonsense lies spread about "what the Buddha said" in order to defame Him and hurt His followers. The Buddha would rather you have sex with beautiful women all of your life instead of injuring your private part, if someone hurt themselves like that, that would be very serious abuse and the person who told them to do it would be guilty of a very serious crime. The Buddha Loves you, and you are a human being.
It is a very famous line from the first rule of the monastic code, the Vinaya: click here, go to paragraph 5.11.6 . If you have any interest in accurately representing the Buddha, it might be helpful if you don't go around calling the Monastic Code nonsense. It is indeed an extreme analogy, but it is nonetheless right there in the Vinaya.
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Mahabrahma »

SDC wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:05 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:35 pm
One disciple of the Buddha who broke the monastic rule against sex is told he would be better off if he stuck his penis in burning coals or in the mouth of a poisonous snake than in a woman.
Do you know the Buddha at all? This is the kind of nonsense lies spread about "what the Buddha said" in order to defame Him and hurt His followers. The Buddha would rather you have sex with beautiful women all of your life instead of injuring your private part, if someone hurt themselves like that, that would be very serious abuse and the person who told them to do it would be guilty of a very serious crime. The Buddha Loves you, and you are a human being.
It is a very famous line from the first rule of the monastic code, the Vinaya: click here, go to paragraph 5.11.6 . If you have any interest in accurately representing the Buddha, it might be helpful if you don't go around calling the Monastic Code nonsense. It is indeed an extreme analogy, but it is nonetheless right there in the Vinaya.
It's a clear fabrication and an obvious seriously abusive analogy. He never said it. Use your good sense and remember the actual good words of the Buddha, because not everything people write down is authentic. In this case it is something used to disparage Him. if you want to be honest and respect the Buddha, you are going to have to respect His character, from which the contents of He would never say such a thing.
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SDC
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by SDC »

Mahabrahma wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:16 am It's a clear fabrication and an obvious seriously abusive analogy. He never said it. Use your good sense and remember the actual good words of the Buddha, because not everything people write down is authentic. In this case it is something used to disparage Him.
Ok, well I'm just making you aware that the story is in the Vinaya, and currently used by the monastic order to describe the rules that are undertaken by monks. Are you asking the forum to just take your word for it? Do you realize how much you would be asking of people to ignore that text and trust you?
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Mahabrahma »

SDC wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:25 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:16 am It's a clear fabrication and an obvious seriously abusive analogy. He never said it. Use your good sense and remember the actual good words of the Buddha, because not everything people write down is authentic. In this case it is something used to disparage Him.
Ok, well I'm just making you aware that the story is in the Vinaya, and currently used by the monastic order to describe the rules that are undertaken by monks. Are you asking the forum to just take your word for it? Do you realize how much you would be asking of people to ignore that text and trust you?
Yes of course take my word for it, we as the Sangha have authority too. If we relied on only literal texts for all the rules and proper teachings and not eachother we would quickly get corrupted by people who change the literal texts without Buddhist authority. Don't let such people have influence over you. The only influence you should have over you is Metta. If it is not of Metta, it is not of Buddha.
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by SDC »

Mahabrahma wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:33 am Yes of course take my word for it, we as the Sangha have authority too. If we relied on only literal texts for all the rules and proper teachings and not eachother we would quickly get corrupted by people who change the literal texts without Buddhist authority.
You're aware the entire Theravadin monastic order uses the Vinaya? My personal opinion is on pause right now. I'm just trying to make you aware of the enduring tradition. The authority, currently, is the fact that it has been going on for so long, especially that first rule. I'm curious as to what Buddhist authority you're referring to. Again, I'm not giving my opinion. This is what is actually the case in the Order. Are you saying the entire Theravadin Sangha needs some sort of reform?
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Re: Semen retentive sex and Buddhist practice

Post by Mahabrahma »

SDC wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:48 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:33 am Yes of course take my word for it, we as the Sangha have authority too. If we relied on only literal texts for all the rules and proper teachings and not eachother we would quickly get corrupted by people who change the literal texts without Buddhist authority.
You're aware the entire Theravadin monastic order uses the Vinaya? My personal opinion is on pause right now. I'm just trying to make you aware of the enduring tradition. The authority, currently, is the fact that it has been going on for so long, especially that first rule. I'm curious as to what Buddhist authority you're referring to. Again, I'm not giving my opinion. This is what is actually the case in the Order. Are you saying the entire Theravadin Sangha needs some sort of reform?
I'm referring to the part about the snake and the coals, that part isn't Buddhist and has no authority, nor was it spoken by the Buddha. The actual monastic codes in the Vinaya are fine, and it is okay to refer to them, but when something like that sticks out, it's important to address it. It would be nice if someone could take the time to take it out of that text about the coals and the snake at least though, because it is a serious problem. The Theravada Sangha is perfect, and I believe they have the capacity to deal with such things. The part of the text I am referring to is something the Sangha has been suffering with for a long time, but it isn't the Sangha's fault, not the original Vinaya's, someone has altered the text. The original poster, "squizzlebizzle" is not at fault, and neither are you, because you were just pointing out the part of the text that is false and where it came from, and that is important to see, and I believe you both have sense and perfect Metta to understand that we must treat our bodies with respect and your own Buddhist conscience on the matter. I originally spoke in such a way that I did to make a point, based on the posts that were written, not on how I feel about you two because to me you both are great Buddhists.
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