AgarikaJ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:00 pmAs one expects them to be informed adults, maybe some responsibility for their experience should rest with them. As always: inform yourself beforehand and choose your teachers wisely (an advice applicable to Theravada students as well).
Of course. And the information tends to be readily available, from first-hand sources, so the charges of manipulation and exploitation don't hold. If one opens up one's eyes and ears, one knows within the first few visits to a religious/spiritual group what they are about. If one actually reads a book by a particular religious/spiritual teacher, they can quickly discern what that teacher is advocating and what's his religious/spiritual program.
There's a scene in the book "Wuthering Heights" where a young woman is fascinated by and in love with a man who doesn't reciprocate her feelings. He tells her directly that he's not interested, but she doesn't budge. He even tortures her dog in front of her, but that doesn't change her mind. Some people who get involved in religion/spirituality are like that young woman ... but eventually, they cry foul.
AgarikaJ wrote:nothing to do with Theravada. Therefore your conclusion that spirituality must negate 'lust', like this is some kind of natural law, is simply not correct.
actual spirituality is about negating lust, what you're speaking of may be false spirituality
cappuccino wrote:actual spirituality is about negating lust, what you're speaking of may be false spirituality
Your word against the word of some other people ...
I think something is true, this is why I'm religious
I guess this proves Binocular's thesis in your case, namely that Buddhism, like all religions, is about being able to make recreational truth claims.
Instead of saying that you think it's true, maybe you can tell us why you think it's true? It's a fair enough statement.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:23 am
A common feature of cults is women-hoarding. The alpha of the cult gets all the ladies and the other men (who are vital to the cult's functioning) are convinced to give up on sex altogether. In fact, when I was a younger man, a recall a certain number of young men decided to remove their genitals altogether during the appearance of a certain celestial Hale–Bopp at the instruction of one of these determined men, determined to control and subdue what is around them.
Very interesting that you mention cults - its my view that social configurations like cults are local intensifications of certain social dynamics, given that the same social behaviour complexes can be observed outside of those configurations. For example, what you mention above can be seen in any social group, but to a much less extreme extent: the most attractive man or woman gets most of the attention, and will attempt to retain that social position.
Interestingly (I think), and to make this post relevant to the thread, and to your point, the underlying factors of these outcomes seem to be at least partly dependent on sex. See attached some charts on how men and women rate each other's attractiveness, from the book Dataclysm:
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Last edited by Pseudobabble on Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"
"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta
Something is wrong with the forum attachment system it seems - the post above should show the each chart once, but I see the first chart 3 times.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"
"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta
