Toxic Relationships

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
Kareem
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Toxic Relationships

Post by Kareem »

I recently moved in with two of my friends who I once cared for deeply. I have begun to realize that my trust in them has been very misplaced. They are very toxic friends and have little regard for how their behaviour affects others. I have many sincere and trustworthy friends in my life. My two housemates do not have these qualities and their lack of respect toward me is causing a lot of hurt.

My practice of Vipassana meditation is slowly allowing me to heal. I am also doing my best to practice forgiveness. In any other circumstance I would remove myself from harms way. I do not have that choice for at least another 11 months when the lease expires.

Does anybody have any advice on how I can approach this situation?
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Aloka
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by Aloka »

Kareem wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:55 am I recently moved in with two of my friends who I once cared for deeply. I have begun to realize that my trust in them has been very misplaced. They are very toxic friends and have little regard for how their behaviour affects others. I have many sincere and trustworthy friends in my life. My two housemates do not have these qualities and their lack of respect toward me is causing a lot of hurt.
Hi Kareem, :hello:

Could you be more specific about what it is that your friends do that you consider to be toxic?

Have you tried practising loving-kindness (metta) meditation at all?

Here's a five minute metta meditation instruction from Ajahn Jayasaro which might be helful:



With kind wishes,

Aloka :anjali:
User1249x
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by User1249x »

make the best out of a bad situation cultuvate metta and compassion
befriend
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by befriend »

I agree when I'm around people in a negative mood I do metta sutta recitation it was taught to make the monks fearless of tree spirits and eventually the malicious tree spirits protected the monks because they enjoyed the mendicants pleasant loving energy.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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bodom
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by bodom »

I just read this short reflection and feel it can offer you some guidance With your situation:
Turning Inward With Patience

Ajahn Jotipālo • July 2013


I have been listening to a few of Bhikkhu Bodhi’s talks on mettā, loving-kindness. He explained that in many practice situations, mettā can often be used with an external, outgoing energy and making a genuine wish for other people to be happy. However, there is also an internal response that can occur for us when we express mettā in this way.

I was surprised when Bhikkhu Bodhi mentioned that the word khanti, patience, is very closely related to the word mettā. I hadn’t recognized that before. I have given a few talks on mettā and when I do, I often receive questions from people con- cerned with external circumstances, such as, “It’s so painful to be with this person . . .” or “When I’m in this situation it’s really difficult. How do you deal with that?” Most of the questions are directed toward the practice of loving-kindness as a method for sending mettā outward. But we can also turn in- ward rather than outward. This is where Bhikkhu Bodhi says patience comes in. We can learn to turn toward the pain we feel toward the dukkha we are experiencing in these difficult circumstances and to hold that dukkha with a quality of patience.

Ajahn Sucitto once said that we often think of patience as waiting for change. I will endure this situation, gritting my teeth, until it changes. Certainly we might want a painful situation to change, but with true patience, according to Ajahn Sucitto, it’s
more like thinking, I will be with this situation, period. In other words, there’s no expectation that the situation will change or get better.

By learning to turn toward our suffering and simply be with it, we are staying at the level of feeling. We are not getting into the story, the proliferation, or creating a self around it. If someone says something to us and we become angry or feel un- comfortable, instead of going outward, as we typically do with mettā, we can go inward. So when we feel pain in a situation, we can first recognize it. Then we move toward the painful feeling and explore it. If we can refrain from getting into the story behind the feeling, it will be that much easier to experience the feeling without wanting to change it. It’s merely a physical sensation or a mental perception, and we do not need to add anything to it or try to make it go away. When we stay with a painful feeling in this way, we are experiencing khanti, true patience.
https://www.abhayagiri.org/media/books/ ... lume_1.pdf

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
JohnK
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by JohnK »

Kareem wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:55 am In any other circumstance I would remove myself from harms way. I do not have that choice for at least another 11 months when the lease expires.
Absolutely no way out?
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
Kareem
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by Kareem »

I am very thankful for all of your responses and the time that you put aside to offer me some perspective. To answer some of your questions:

They are both individuals with seperate relationships to me. They do share some similar qualities within the relationships though. They lack basic respect toward me and have no regard for how their behaviour affects me. They often ridicule me, dismissing my ideas or behaviour as invalid. They both lack empathy and concern for my wellbeing. When I do turn to them for support either I get a halfhearted response or no response at all. I go out of my way to support and encourage them and it is completely taken for granted.

I am currently practicing lovingkindness meditation and though I cannot trust them, I am sure I can develop the capacity to wish them well.

My concern at the moment is more about how I should approach the situation in a tangible way ie. how I should act and speak. I am currently avoiding being around them. I am in my room during the night and at my brothers during the weekend. I have tried to be honest with them about my concerns but it has only created more tension within the household. When I am around them I now pretend that I have no issues with them. It feels awkward, inauthentic and disempowering.
paul
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by paul »

I lived in monasteries and got used to the silence there, where you never speak unless there’s something functional to be said. This is a great benefit to mindfulness, and I got so accustomed to doing it that I practise it in lay life, I just never speak to people unless I have something to say. So I think you’re in the ideal situation where you’re living an independent and silent life, if you can just stop worrying about it and expecting more than what’s possible, i.e. stop trying to impose a personal-type relationship on the situation. It’s not toxic, it’s just a normal functional relationship in shared accomodation (the basis of the relationship is financial). If you're a Buddhist you will naturally be moving away from the uninstructed run-of-the-mill type of person, so have as little to do with them as possible. There are some changes of attitude that must be worked on.
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by salayatananirodha »

JohnK wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:57 pm
Kareem wrote: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:55 am In any other circumstance I would remove myself from harms way. I do not have that choice for at least another 11 months when the lease expires.
Absolutely no way out?
I also wondered this. :)
Sure, you may have to pay some kind of a severance fee or get a bad report on your credit, but is your peace of mind worth that? When you're in a volatile situation you want out of, you may not always control your faculties. You might say or do evil things, no matter how much you talk yourself up, because you're impacted by feeling.
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Laurens
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by Laurens »

The main thing I would recommend is making metta a focus of your meditation when you are finding things particularly tough. I won't necessarily prevent things from triggering you into feeling negative, but it will become easier to empathise and to let go of any ill will before it builds up into resentment.

Also perhaps reflect on the nature of our relationships with others. So often we want things to conform to our expectations, we want people not to act a certain way, but the reality is that we can't change how people are. It's not our duty to. You say, for instance, that they lack respect for you. That's tough to be on the receiving end of, but its not your job to turn them into respectful people. You can only change how you react, so work on that. Maybe if you respect them regardless they will change based upon your example, but don't count on it.

This will pass, maybe even sooner than you think.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
rolling_boulder
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by rolling_boulder »

get out of there if you can

Distance from fools is rather underappreciated in western buddhist circles IMO

just leave
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.
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LG2V
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by LG2V »

rolling_boulder wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:52 pm get out of there if you can

Distance from fools is rather underappreciated in western buddhist circles IMO

just leave
This. See if you can get someone to take over your lease or sublet. This being said, do be friendly and generous with them while you're there; these qualities go a long way and generosity usually leads to one receiving more respect.

And make an extra effort to make new friends. Housemates becoming enemies is rather common, so your life might be easier if you have a strong social group without them.

Best of luck to you man.
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thang
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by thang »

Mahasatipatthana Sutta - a. Dukkhasacca Pabba (Section on the Noble Truth of Dukkha)

And what, bhikkhus, is the dukkha of having to associate with those (persons or things) one dislikes (appiyehi sampayogo dukkho)?

Having to meet, remain with, be in close contact, or intermingle, with sights, sounds, odours, tastes, tactile objects, and dhammas in this world which are undesirable, unpleasant or unenjoyable, or with those who desire one's disadvantage, loss, discomfort, or association with danger - this, bhikkhus, is called the dukkha of having to associate with those (persons or things) one dislikes.
Solution:
Mahasatipatthana Sutta - d. Maggasacca Pabba (Section on the Noble Truth of the Path leading to the cessation of Dukkha)

And what, bhikkhus, is the Noble Truth of the path leading to the cessation of dukkha?

It is the Noble Eightfold Path, namely, Right View (Samma-ditthi), Right Thought (Samma-sankappa), Right Speech (Samma-vaca), Right Action (Samma-kammanta), Right Livelihood (Samma-ajiva), Right Effort (Samma-vayama), Right Mindfulness (Samma-sati), and Right Concentration (Samma-samadhi).
Release:
Mettanisamsa Sutta: Discourse on Advantages of Loving-kindness

"Monks, eleven advantages are to be expected from the release (deliverance) of heart by familiarizing oneself with thoughts of loving-kindness (metta), by the cultivation of loving-kindness, by constantly increasing these thoughts, by regarding loving-kindness as a vehicle (of expression), and also as something to be treasured, by living in conformity with these thoughts, by putting these ideas into practice, and by establishing them. What are the eleven?

1. "He sleeps in comfort. 2. He awakes in comfort. 3. He sees no evil dreams. 4. He is dear to human beings. 5. He is dear to non-human beings. 6. Devas (gods) protect him. 7. Fire, poison, and sword cannot touch him. 8. His mind can concentrate quickly. 9. His countenance is serene. 10. He dies without being confused in mind. 11. If he fails to attain arahantship (the highest sanctity) here and now, he will be reborn in the brahma-world.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."
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anthbrown84
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by anthbrown84 »

The Buddha gave a brilliant sutta on how to approach these sort of people, it's called the Similie of the saw.

But from me personally, let them be who they are, don't get involved and jeopardise your path (even though it's hard) and accept that this is how things will be for a year.
In that year you can learn to generate loving kindness even for troublesome people like your friends.
When purchasing practise deepens we can see it doesn't actually matter what other people do at all, it's our reaction, our turning to the wholesome that makes our reality.

Your old friends are toxic, that's their kamma
You, I assume are not, and that is your kamma :)

I'm actually really blessed as I feel like bhante Vimalaramsis method of loving kindness really integrates into daily life with ease and eventually he recommends a forgiveness meditation. This is unparalleled IMHO with how it changes our perception.
I used to have real difficulties with my in laws, ones a hunter, ones an Iver the top controller who loves attention.. Just over week ago I was on.holiday with them and I was in bliss, so peaceful even.when they were talking about killing animals or simply being idiots.

If our response is to keep retuning to practise, it doesn't matter what they do. We can be an island to ourselves :)

If you like and I can help in anyway, please feel free to PM me. I feel your pain

With a soft smile

Anthony
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate
aislinn
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Re: Toxic Relationships

Post by aislinn »

I don’t know if this is helpful to you, but I have found in my own life that when I am very direct, kind and honest about my own boundaries, people not only respect them but are almost grateful that I put a stop to the bad actions. In fact, I think they are almost grateful I wouldn’t let them harm me, as this is good for their kamma as well as my own.

Speak the truth, be kind, address the issue for what it is. Be aware of your own mind, and it’s own foibles when doing this. It will try to trick you that you are “the hero of your own story”, when in truth few of us are perfect. Be open to your own misinterpretations, and deal with these with the loving kindness you give your friends.

I will warn you that sometimes, when addressing issues head on, it can be like ripping off a plaster. Much toxic feeling can come out when we address the imperfection of our own ego or the ego of others. I find in this situation the best way to frame it mentally and verbally is “you have harmed me and you cannot go on harming me, but by saying this it does not mean I do not appreciate or accept you”. You need to mean it in your volition. Sometimes direct vocal action is also not always the best way. Sometimes silent reproach is as powerful as anything said with words.

Other than that, practising metta as others have suggested really does work for me. I have seen frustration dissipate when practicing metta and saying nothing.

I wish you strength and hope you find a solution Aislinn
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