Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
be_good_do_good
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Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by be_good_do_good » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:50 pm

Hi All,

I am a lay man ,34 years old ,happily married with a beautiful wife and a 4 year daughter , got introduced to Meditation/Budhhism in 2010 in S N Goenka retreats , since than I have read much and of course practiced meditation intermittently like 1 or 2 hours in a week . So I am not regular meditator.
Now a days I am quiet observant about not breaking the 5 Silas ,try to not to utter lies even in office gossips . I want to ask fellow Dhamma lay practitioners who are in a relationship , that how they balance passionate love making and mindfulness . Of course I asked this to regular meditators ,they said please follow 5 Silas ,meditate and you would get all answers yourself. But I have observed if I am not fuelled with passion ,I am not able make it a satisfying love making session. I am not at all asking advice to a passionate love making but how to be mindful while keeping my relationship healthy in terms of fleshy desires..!

Be happy!

be_good_do_good
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by be_good_do_good » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:22 pm

I found something interesting in this forum only.

"Buddhism and Sex", by M. O'C. Walshe. Access to Insight (BCBS Edition), 1 December 2012, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html .

Golden rule : Never let passion override compassion!

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DooDoot
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:28 am

Welcome BGDG

The scriptures say when the Buddha originally taught Right Mindfulness in his Noble Eightfold Path, this teaching was for those who had left the household life. Thus Right Mindfulness means to give up sensuality & sexuality.

However, for a Buddhist lay person, ordinary mindfulness simply includes to remember to keep the precepts & to remember to conduct your marriage with mutual respect, gratitude & unselfishness. For example, the Buddhist teaching about marriage says:
Husband & wife, both of them
having conviction,
being responsive,
being restrained,
living by the Dhamma,
addressing each other
with loving words:
they benefit in manifold ways.
To them comes bliss.
Their enemies are dejected
when both are in tune in virtue.
Having followed the Dhamma here in this world,
both in tune in precepts & practices,
they delight in the world of the devas,
enjoying the pleasures they desire.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:53 am

In my experience, being mindful of sensations, noises, smells, etc, during sex is quite yucky. Total lust-killer.
If I want "good" sex, I try to focus on the other person, or the passion, or what I feel for her in my mind. Not the actual sensations, as Goenkaji may teach.

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manas
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by manas » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:41 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:53 am
In my experience, being mindful of sensations, noises, smells, etc, during sex is quite yucky. Total lust-killer.
If I want "good" sex, I try to focus on the other person, or the passion, or what I feel for her in my mind. Not the actual sensations, as Goenkaji may teach.
I get the same effect with eating. Being mindful while I eat, can result in feeling a bit nauseated, as the food gets all mashed up in the mouth...it can put me off eating. (Which in my case is an issue, because I'm already chronically underweight.)
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:22 pm

manas wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:41 pm
I get the same effect with eating. Being mindful while I eat, can result in feeling a bit nauseated, as the food gets all mashed up in the mouth...it can put me off eating...
Exactly, yes. I guess there are many daily-life experiences which are not pleasureable when you examine them too closely.

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Nwad
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by Nwad » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

I think its better to observe phenomenas (food,sex..) as they are without interpretation. Because phenomenas have no taste, or color in itself its our mind who color them, being rooted on craving... So if tendency is about aversion, is not so good, and not lead to dispassion. IMO

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TamHanhHi
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by TamHanhHi » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:18 pm

I remember Thanissaro Bhikkhu saying something along the lines of training the mind to respond skillfully. If you feel unhelpful attachment to something, then look at its drawbacks. Poison the fantasy, so to speak. At the same time, if you feel unhelpful aversion to something, consider its benefits. In this case, consider its pleasures.

I think people mention the precepts because passion taken too far can end up harming others and yourself. What are your motivations for being a passionate lover? Do they come from a place of love and kindness for your partner?
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."AN 5.38 :candle: | Blog at http://dhammareflections.wordpress.com

J.Lee.Nelson
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by J.Lee.Nelson » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:38 am

I meditate at most two hours per day and during the weekends or school vacations I have to make an effort to mediate even one hour, and yet, even with this spotty practice I have found myself almost completely lacking in lust for several months. And this is very funny, because it was probably lust that got me this deep into Buddhism in the first place. (I'm a woman and developed celebrity crush on a certain monk who fidgets a lot in a way that I found very sexy. Please don't judge! Lust transmuted into metta with practice. I still enjoy his dhamma talks, but thankfully they don't get me all hot and bothered the way they once did.)

I recently confessed my lack of libido to my spouse, who expressed concern that some sort of disagreement between body and mind could be a sign of depression or lead to a psychotic break or hysteria. However, I just don't feel lustful and find meditation to be more satisfying and beneficial for my happiness in the long term—despite the fact that the piti I experience is not nearly as physically moving as a great orgasm. I still initiate sex because I feel my spouse (who is not Buddhist) doesn't have a large palette to paint a picture of intimacy and love. Sex is one of the main colors in that picture, so even though I know better, I do it so that he knows he's loved, but it's hard to make love-making really great for him when I can't demonstrate a certain amount of lust, ravenousness, and craving as there was earlier in our relationship. You could say that I do it out of metta more than lust, but I feel like that doesn't do it for his untrained worldling mind. I should probably ask him directly.

I can't express how much I wish my spouse and I could have conversations on the dhamma and how much I wish he would take the Five Precepts and take them seriously, but having grown up in the former-USSR, he has absolutely no interest in any religion at all. He supports me in my practice, though, which has been nothing but beneficial to our family. I'm a happier, more attentive, mindful, patient mother for it and my love for our children is based more in metta than in seeing them as an extension of self—although after some particularly good sits I wander around the house and garden too blissed out to do any cleaning or weeding. To be honest, there was a stage in my practice where I really wanted to just run away and become a monastic, but I have come to accept my family as my kamma for my previous actions and have decided to make the most of things. Anyhow, I probably have fewer responsibilities and more time to meditate as a stay-at-home mom during school days than I would as a nun and I have grand parents who don't mind taking care of the children while I go for retreats. Nice work if you can get it.

Anyway, if someone discovers the secret formula to being able to provide one's non-Buddhist partner with mind-blowing sex while not really being into it oneself and wants to tell us, that'd be great. Or, if someone would share their story of succeeding in converting their partner to Buddhism (directly or through osmosis), that would be equally appreciated. I guess all of this was to say, "be_good_do_good, you're not alone. This is a common situation. In all likelihood your practice is bringing more good into your family life than lack of good." You can probably ask your wife yourself if she notices a change in your love-making. Maybe she doesn't and there isn't a problem on her end. :shrug: Best wishes for a happy family life and fulfilling practice!

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rightviewftw
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:50 am

There are only two options either cultivate delusion or right understanding. Sexuality is an obstacle to path and jhana.

santa100
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by santa100 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:47 pm

J.Lee.Nelson wrote:Anyway, if someone discovers the secret formula to being able to provide one's non-Buddhist partner with mind-blowing sex while not really being into it oneself and wants to tell us, that'd be great.
As the saying goes, you can't have it all. It'd take mind-blowing lust in order to provide one's partner with mind-blowing sex. Due to some apparent physical characteristics, if a guy attains perfect tranquility and mindfulness, the "ICBM" will never take off from its launch pad; similarly for a woman, that could potentially lead to uncomfortable and painful sex. Anyway, there's no need to worry too much about the sex part, any intelligent man would much rather prefer a wife with mediocre performance in bed, but a nice caring wife who really takes care of her husband, her kids, and her house; over a wife with a porn-star-grade performance, but a nasty wife to her husband and a terrible mother to her kids.

J.Lee.Nelson
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by J.Lee.Nelson » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:26 am

santa100 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:47 pm
Anyway, there's no need to worry too much about the sex part, any intelligent man would much rather prefer a wife with mediocre performance in bed, but a nice caring wife who really takes care of her husband, her kids, and her house; over a wife with a porn-star-grade performance, but a nasty wife to her husband and a terrible mother to her kids.
Thank you for the reassurance! I have to admit that perhaps it's a bit lazy of me to fall back on sex to make my husband feel loved. I wonder what sorts of other things I could introduce into our love palette? Little surprise love-notes here and there? Picking flowers from the garden and leaving them on his home office desk? Hmmm!

santa100
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by santa100 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:03 am

J.Lee.Nelson wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:26 am
I wonder what sorts of other things I could introduce into our love palette? Little surprise love-notes here and there? Picking flowers from the garden and leaving them on his home office desk? Hmmm!
I'm sure those would be nice. But don't forget the tried and true: the way to a man's heart is through his stomach... :tongue:

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:07 am

theres nothing harmful about losing a desire to have sex or having it diminish, in fact it is a good thing
if one's relationship is contingent only on sex then it's worthless. it is the same as doing heroin together or something, you know what i mean?
there's bound to be plenty of lust left over, if not you might be becoming a non-returner, and thats great; remember, only dukkha arises and only dukkha passes away.



"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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robertk
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Re: Flesh desires along with mindfulness

Post by robertk » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:23 am

Even sotapanna and sakadagami may enjoy pleasures of the flesh, and even the completely deluded may abstain from pleasures of the flesh.

The path is primarily one of eradicating wrong view..

In the Samyutta nikaya V (Sayings on stream entry p347 The great chapter Dhammadina ) 500 rich merchants came to see the Buddha . They explained they were given over to the joys of wives and family and captivated by the five strands of sense pleasures. They asked how they should live their lives. The Buddha suggested that they train themselves thus:

"as to those discourses uttered by the Tathagatha, deep, deep in meaning, transcendental and concerned with the void (about anatta) from time to time we will spend our days learning them. That is how you must spend your days."

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