Desire for Relationship and for Lack of Relationship

[Wri]

Tricycle Magazine has a very interesting article running in the Winter edition: http://www.tricycle.com/feature/joy-no-sex I always buy Tricycle, not because it is always perfect, but some editions are near-to-great, and this Winter's edition I have found particularly relevant to my interests and practice. The Joy of No Sex: A lay practitioner reveals one of the most liberating decisions of her life: celibacy. by Mary Talbot

Thanks Anagarika. That was also encouraging. Sometimes I feel like I'm some kind of outcast, especially since I want to stop wanting sex and relationships. But I think it's for the best that I go the way of renunciation. Running after this desire and holding on to my rewards have been far too painful and damaging to my mind. It's time to leave that life behind in the sense of ending the pursuit of it, but not necessarily denying a relationship should it arise. What good is renunciation if it only leads to aversion? Certainly, I have far less anxiety than I used to. I can devote myself to meaningful things instead.

I also want to say that it has been incredibly moving to receive so much support

[Digity]

Thanks Digity. I feel very fortunate to have found Buddhism. It feels more meaningful than anything else, as far as I've felt. The link you posted helped a bit. It seems a little bit harsh for my taste, likely since I've been out of the intense clinging for relationships since I got into Buddhism. Now it's just a bit of "missing out" kind of thing. I don't think they're so full of suffering that they're worthless. The link seems a bit too divisive for my taste. But it does remind me not to think that relationships are really going to fulfill me in any way. Certainly not as much as the Dhamma.

It's nice to hear from so many people that have pursued a single or celibate life. It is very encouraging

I felt the same way the first time I read it. It seemed a bit harsh to me too. However, after seeing some unfortunate events with families in my life like divorce, husbands cheating, kids with behaviour problems and even a son on my aunt's side committing suicide when I read that talk again it resonated more with me. I think sometimes the truth is a bit bitter. Of course there are aspects of pleasure in relationships. No one is denying that, but it's always good to have a realistic perspective on these things and see that relationships, like all things in life, can give rise to much dukkha. That being said, there's a lot of Buddhist out there in relationships and I don't think it necessarily hinders them. As a lay person I think we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves for wanting to partner up and if the right relationship comes along then it might not be such a bad thing.

[Wri]

Digity,

Yes I feel like the Dhamma gives us a lot more power to handle things correctly and without suffering, likely more so than if we didn't find the Dhamma. I'm still in my early 20's, so I haven't had a whole lot of experience with loss yet. But losing the thing I gave my whole life too, that was enough at my age. These days I'm thankful I felt the pain so deeply and so early on in my life, so I can live the rest of it in wisdom. I feel like I can protect myself. That's something only wisdom can give you. I don't think I'd have any problem with a relationship starting naturally, and being aware of impermanence ahead of time helps. But this yearning for love and acceptance, that has to go. I have to accept each moment as it arises with the wisdom to know what is helpful and unhelpful. I can see the yearning disappear. I'm just in that stage where you're letting go of things you lived your life for, and trying to settle in to a new way of life. And that's really hard to do in a sex obsessed culture lol people start to leave you behind because you're not loud and obnoxious, you don't party, you don't look flashy, entertainment is trivial, etc. But luckily, kindness and sincerity bring the best people to you. I might not be in a relationship, but I've met so many wonderful people I never thought I'd speak to in my life, including the people on this forum.

[indian_buddhist]

Hello everyone!

I'm facing a dilemma, one that's pretty much been the main focus of my life for over a decade. I'm sure many of us here can relate to it, so I'm bringing this up here in the hopes that I can find some perspectives and advice. Thank you for your kindness.

Until I had come across the Dhamma, my main goal in life was being in a romantic relationship. I had quite a bit of success with that throughout high school and my first semester of college. Although these seemed to satisfy me enough at the time, I came to find out that they were masking my sufferings when I lost the last relationship I had nearly three years ago. Since then, I have not been in any close relationships, close friendships, or in any sexual encounters.

The dilemma is that I still desire relationships and sex on a regular basis and live in a culture obsessed with both those things and seeing them as the end all be all of life. However, the Dhamma has given me a much higher purpose in life, and moment to moment meaning that has made my life wonderful. Having been on this path for a year and a half, I am well established in my practice. I see, understand, and feel for myself concepts that show me I can be happy through my own mental effort, that I can let go of clinging, that romantic love and sex is a minuscule happiness compared to the joy of compassion and meditation. I see examples of highly noble, venerable monks living lives without romance and sex. I understand and feel for myself suffering, impermanence, and non-self and how peace can be attained because of these.

I feel at peace on some level at all times. But I live in a culture obsessed with these things and unfortunately the possibility of ordaining for me is a long-shot which is at least a few years down the line. I have spoken to a Tibetan monk before about this situation, and he said it just comes down to patience. I'm pretty good at that, however when such a contradiction of desires is flourishing in the mind, it is difficult to understand what is going on. In Vipassana meditations, I have pinpointed it to a need for excitement. However, when I tone down this need, I feel a high amount of aversion as if my life were being taken away from me. I lose energy quickly and am unable to do work. So I try to take joy in the Dhamma, meditation, and mindfulness. I don't cling to the joy, but I recognize that it can be in my life so I don't heighten aversion to it.

I think I could probably make this post into a novel, but I will end the post here! I would appreciate hearing how others here have handled this desire for sex and relationships and found comfort in a single and perhaps celibate life. Thank you very much

I personally feel being in Love and Romance is not such a bad thing but the trouble is finding a suitable person who would understand you and reciprocate such feelings.

Having personally been through a hard experience I can say that it is extremely rare to find such a person.

True Love is a mirage in this world. Yes true a lot of people are living together and seemingly happy with each other but there is a lot of lies and hypocracy involved in them not visible from the outside.

Being a Monk and going forth I personally do not like it. I would rather dedicate my life helping others through charity and side by side following the Dhamma. I believe I would be more productive than being a Monk.

[Wri]

Yeah indian_buddhist, that's pretty much the direction I'm going in. Except I don't think I would block off a relationship should the opportunity arise, but I would have to be especially mindful and I don't think being a monk would cut you off from charitable work; you'd just have to give out things like information and good deeds.

[himanshi sharma]

Love is the most beautiful thing ...and being is love is more heavenly , no religious stops or prohibits to love , if u r truely in love then u will respect that one person , and get control on ur urges as by just holding hands would give the satisfaction.
I personally have gone thru a rough marriage where my husband used to abuse me and claimed to love me at the same moment.I was physically harassed as well. So don't believe anyone by listening to their one sided story. Listen to ur heart.only heart.as it will never bring bad thoughts/wrong decision.
Also I would want to know by doing charity or by becoming a monk will the bad sins that's done wash off????
And yes not to forget if u really love somebody then the power of love will surely get u what u want.and if u do good u get good in return, and if u get bad then ignore that person coz that's the only thing which he has in return yo give u .

[Wri]

There's a difference between the love of unconditional compassion and the love of attachment. The love of unconditional compassion is praised in Buddhism. It allows us to help those in need and flourish as humans. It allows us to feel connected, useful, important, and virtuous. This love can be extended to a single person for a long amount of time, and can be found withing marriages as well. However, we usually think of the love of attachment. This is love that is designed around a futile attempt to make everything perfect for someone because they do not know how to be happy from the inside out. This is what causes us to try to control people, manipulate them, and even do things which damage their minds intensely and can scar them for the rest of their life. This love of attachment, this love based on having personal or selfish desires satisfied, must be cut off. I will not stop a relationship, but it has to be a virtuous and mindful relationship built of compassion and companionship, not the satisfaction of selfish desires.

Being in love can be great, and it can very easily be blinding and leave us in shock when it inevitably goes away or does not go the way we want, even if it lasts until the day a person dies. The attachment to having things just the way we want them can blind us to the reality of things, namely, that things don't always go the way we want them and we must be able to face the things that hurt us to we can heal those things. We need to stop running from them. The love we typically think of is a way of running away from what needs to be healed.

Regarding your question, yes and no. Our "sins" cannot be washed off entirely in the way I see Kamma. It is intricate. If you commit an act which has continuous effects, then you are going to face those continuous effects. It is the nature of an act committed. Kamma isn't a point system so you don't just put points in and get certain results. Buddhism allows us to reach Enlightenment in any lifetime. It depends on the quality of our mind in relation to experience and the effects our intentions have on the mind. The Buddha had many attachments in his lifetime before he became the Buddha. He was handed women to use for pleasure for example. But he made up for it by changing his lifestyle and promoting more wholesome values. His actions are not forgotten, nor more justified in themselves, nor eliminated, nor were the consequences dissociated from him. But he became a better person with a virtuous mind once he knew better, and he committed himself to teaching these new values. This is all we can do. We are heirs to our Kamma, but we need not be ruled over past actions for the rest of our lives. We have the opportunity to change our future Kamma, but what we have done will always have consequences. We do not create good Kamma simply by putting on the robes of a monk and committing good actions. We will only create this good Kamma once our intentions are pure. Trying to make past actions forgotten by committing superficially good actions is not making very good Kamma in my opinion.

Anyway, this topic is intended to discuss methods of being free from attachment in relationships and desiring to be in relationships for gratifying desires. It is also to discuss methods of maintaining contentment with celibacy should the conditions for celibacy arise. I would like to keep this on topic. Discussions of Kamma should be kept to other threads.

[himanshi sharma]

Thank u so much for clarifying it to me about the consequences of bad doings will be faced no.matter how well u become later on in ur life.
Yup u may continue with the reall intention of this topic. Thanks again.
And yes I do believe in love where the opposite person smiles and u r the cause of that smile ,giving is love. But if in return u get continuous negativity its better to just walk away.

[lotus flower]

Hello everyone!

I'm facing a dilemma, one that's pretty much been the main focus of my life for over a decade. I'm sure many of us here can relate to it, so I'm bringing this up here in the hopes that I can find some perspectives and advice. Thank you for your kindness.

Until I had come across the Dhamma, my main goal in life was being in a romantic relationship. I had quite a bit of success with that throughout high school and my first semester of college. Although these seemed to satisfy me enough at the time, I came to find out that they were masking my sufferings when I lost the last relationship I had nearly three years ago. Since then, I have not been in any close relationships, close friendships, or in any sexual encounters.

The dilemma is that I still desire relationships and sex on a regular basis and live in a culture obsessed with both those things and seeing them as the end all be all of life. However, the Dhamma has given me a much higher purpose in life, and moment to moment meaning that has made my life wonderful. Having been on this path for a year and a half, I am well established in my practice. I see, understand, and feel for myself concepts that show me I can be happy through my own mental effort, that I can let go of clinging, that romantic love and sex is a minuscule happiness compared to the joy of compassion and meditation. I see examples of highly noble, venerable monks living lives without romance and sex. I understand and feel for myself suffering, impermanence, and non-self and how peace can be attained because of these.

I feel at peace on some level at all times. But I live in a culture obsessed with these things and unfortunately the possibility of ordaining for me is a long-shot which is at least a few years down the line. I have spoken to a Tibetan monk before about this situation, and he said it just comes down to patience. I'm pretty good at that, however when such a contradiction of desires is flourishing in the mind, it is difficult to understand what is going on. In Vipassana meditations, I have pinpointed it to a need for excitement. However, when I tone down this need, I feel a high amount of aversion as if my life were being taken away from me. I lose energy quickly and am unable to do work. So I try to take joy in the Dhamma, meditation, and mindfulness. I don't cling to the joy, but I recognize that it can be in my life so I don't heighten aversion to it.

I think I could probably make this post into a novel, but I will end the post here! I would appreciate hearing how others here have handled this desire for sex and relationships and found comfort in a single and perhaps celibate life. Thank you very much

helo. passions will come again and again it is normal . just don't follow the passions. when i wish for a relationship i do metta and karuna meditations. send pity and kindness toward every livings.
when i craving for sex i do asubha meditations.
and walking vipassana meditation is also a good help.
walking in the sunny forest or nature is also help...
if the weather is bad i watch sunny nature photos. or i imagine a sunny place....
thinking deeply about the Four Noble Truths. i hope it helps. good luck.

[Wri]

Thank you for your advice lotus flower.

In terms of an update on this thread, I don't feel a need for relationships or sex anymore (although I think I stopped that "need" before this thread) and have seen myself become a much happier and humorous person when I am free from sexual craving. When the craving returns, I can notice exactly what it does to me and how it makes meditation more difficult, as well as making me a more closed off, serious, and tense person. I don't wish to rid myself of sexuality, and it seems like I've done what I need to do: stop thinking I need it to be happy or satisfied. In time, the connections in my brain will accept this and cravings will subside. I think it is only a matter of time. For now, I simply watch as the periods of craving arise and fall and try to enjoy a good laugh at the whole thing.

Thank you for your support everyone

[Mkoll]

Thank you for your advice lotus flower.

In terms of an update on this thread, I don't feel a need for relationships or sex anymore (although I think I stopped that "need" before this thread) and have seen myself become a much happier and humorous person when I am free from sexual craving. When the craving returns, I can notice exactly what it does to me and how it makes meditation more difficult, as well as making me a more closed off, serious, and tense person. I don't wish to rid myself of sexuality, and it seems like I've done what I need to do: stop thinking I need it to be happy or satisfied. In time, the connections in my brain will accept this and cravings will subside. I think it is only a matter of time. For now, I simply watch as the periods of craving arise and fall and try to enjoy a good laugh at the whole thing.

Thank you for your support everyone

I imagine that desires for intimacy and sex will return in the future. Think of the not-just-a-few monks who disrobe for that very reason, even after many years of dedicated practice. Don't be too overconfident!

[I don't say that to be snarky but just to give a friendly word of warning that you may already acknowledge without my saying it. But just in case, there it is! ]

[Wri]

Thank you for your advice lotus flower.

In terms of an update on this thread, I don't feel a need for relationships or sex anymore (although I think I stopped that "need" before this thread) and have seen myself become a much happier and humorous person when I am free from sexual craving. When the craving returns, I can notice exactly what it does to me and how it makes meditation more difficult, as well as making me a more closed off, serious, and tense person. I don't wish to rid myself of sexuality, and it seems like I've done what I need to do: stop thinking I need it to be happy or satisfied. In time, the connections in my brain will accept this and cravings will subside. I think it is only a matter of time. For now, I simply watch as the periods of craving arise and fall and try to enjoy a good laugh at the whole thing.

Thank you for your support everyone

I imagine that desires for intimacy and sex will return in the future. Think of the not-just-a-few monks who disrobe for that very reason, even after many years of dedicated practice. Don't be too overconfident!

[I don't say that to be snarky but just to give a friendly word of warning that you may already acknowledge without my saying it. But just in case, there it is! ]

Oh yes! I am well aware of that. To clarify, I did say that I don't wish to rid myself of sexuality, as I do expect feelings of intimacy or passion to arise again and again. We are human--our emotions will arise! But there is that difference between natural arising and craving. The feeling that I must have it in order to be happy is nonsense, and at the conceptual level I have that realized due to the ability to generate internal happiness/peace of mind. However, I notice the subtle level of the brain fighting for it still. That is what I was referring to. The feelings of need will fully subside, but of course, the emotion of it will arise. How we relate to that is the real task. For example, if I see a body I find particularly attractive, I will naturally feel pleasant, but I will not seek it because I know I don't need it. In some cases, I feel a very strong desire for the person implying I must have it to be satisfied. At this point I recognize it to be unwholesome as soon as I can and stop feeding into it. I try my best, and have long since known that patience is one of the highest virtues If a relationship will begin, I will let it happen naturally (as opposed to the "make me happy" relationships I've had plenty of experience with) while keeping up my mindfulness for unwholesome kamma.

I hope that makes sense. I may have made it more complicated but I don't know how else to explain it haha!

[Opanayiko]

Hello friend,

I understand your situation well. I too am still very much 'in the world' but training the mind to not be 'of the world'.
As you say the 'woods' of romance and intimacy are precisely the focal point of our society. And it is extremely against the stream to voluntarily be celibate. If your choice is to remain a non-celibate layman, and the causes and conditions arise for you to enter into a relationship again, I send my sincere wishes that you may find true happiness of unconditional love. Be ever watchful for lust. This is mankind's downfall.

Remember what unconditional love is: no matter what your partner may do or say, you can patiently accept them. There is no attachment in this kind of love. There is no craving to be with them. If you are together, great. If you are apart, great aswell. The purpose to be in such a relationship is spiritual reciprocity. You help each other advance in insight and wisdom. Both of you understand Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta and are interested in developing Right View. This truly is the only kind of intimate relationship that doesn't involve sorrow, grief, worry, or pain. With absolute faith in BuddhaDhamma I have reflected on this deeply and implore you to read the Dhammapada Ch.16 on Affection. ("...From endearment grief is born...").

In your first post you mentioned "In Vipassana meditations, I have pinpointed it to a need for excitement. However, when I tone down this need, I feel a high amount of aversion as if my life were being taken away from me." From experience, when such a mental formation arose as 'aversion to negating a desire for something I "should be" or "could be" and felt as if "my life" was disappearing as a concept', instead of reacting, I just witnessed the process of mind. There was a deep feeling of release. No more grasping for a comparison of myself and others. I strive on to let go of believing in who I think I am.

I hope my input helps you. Just as The Rightly Self-Awakened one, we too must work out our own liberation from ignorance. No one can do it for us.
The answers you seek lie within you. True happiness and freedom are dependent on our thoughts, speech and action. I send my aspirations that you may one day cross the flood to the other shore.

With Metta

[Wri]

Thank you Opanayiko, that was very encouraging and helpful. I have progressed quite a deal since my first post I have experienced unconditional love a number of times in the last two years, but only with people I have met online while providing them reassurance through difficult times and mental states. That spirit of pure helping and acceptance and companionship is far better than anything lust can give for sure. We just have to deal with the little monkey in our minds throwing a fit because he wants his stuff hahaha

Thanks again for your time and effort in providing reassurance. May you be at peace as well!

[lotus flower]

Worthless man, it is unseemly, out of line,
unsuitable, and unworthy of a contemplative;
improper and not to be done... Haven't I
taught the Dhamma in many ways for the sake
of dispassion and not for passion; for
unfettering and not for fettering; for freedom
from clinging and not for clinging? Yet here,
while I have taught the Dhamma for
dispassion, you set your heart on passion;
while I have taught the Dhamma for
unfettering, you set your heart on being
fettered; while I have taught the Dhamma for
freedom from clinging, you set your heart on
clinging.
"'Worthless man, haven't I taught the Dhamma
in many ways for the fading of passion, the
sobering of intoxication, the subduing of
thirst, the destruction of attachment, the
severing of the round, the ending of craving,
dispassion, cessation, unbinding? Haven't I in
many ways advocated abandoning sensual
pleasures, comprehending sensual perceptions,
subduing sensual thirst, destroying sensual
thoughts, calming sensual fevers? Worthless
man, it would be better that your penis be
stuck into the mouth of a poisonous snake
than into a woman's vagina. It would be better
that your penis be stuck into the mouth of a
black viper than into a woman's vagina. It
would be better that your penis be stuck into a
pit of burning embers, blazing and glowing,
than into a woman's vagina. Why is that? For
that reason you would undergo death or death-
like suffering, but you would not on that
account, at the break-up of the body, after
death, fall into deprivation, the bad
destination, the abyss, hell. But for this reason
you would, at the break-up of the body, after
death, fall into deprivation, the bad
destination, the abyss, hell...
"'Worthless man, this neither inspires faith in
the faithless nor increases the faithful. Rather,
it inspires lack of faith in the faithless and
wavering in some of the faithful.'"

FROM pratyeka.org/a2i/lib/authors/thanissaro/bmc1/bmc1.intro.html

The Buddhist Monastic Code I
The Patimokkha Training Rules
Translated and Explained
by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2007–2010