i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

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chownah
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by chownah » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:14 am

Haven't read most of this thread but one factor which some mentioned as a detractor to same sex sex is that it goes against social norms. I think these people should take a look at the fact that same sex marriage is now legal everywhere in the USA so it seems that same sex sex has been officially sanctioned. I guess then that social norms can not be used as a detractor for same sex sex in the USA.
chownah

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Bundokji
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:32 pm

chownah wrote:Haven't read most of this thread but one factor which some mentioned as a detractor to same sex sex is that it goes against social norms. I think these people should take a look at the fact that same sex marriage is now legal everywhere in the USA so it seems that same sex sex has been officially sanctioned. I guess then that social norms can not be used as a detractor for same sex sex in the USA.
chownah
Social norms and civil law are two different things. For example, in Saudia Arabia there is no civil law that ban women from driving, but its socially unacceptable.

However, law makers can accelerate social change. Once again, back in the sixties, the religious community in Saudia Arabia was against female education, and when the king at that time (king Faisal) wanted to establish a school for Females, most of the conservatives protested, but he insisted that its not compulsory and if they don't want to educate their daughters no one would force them to do so. Nowadays female education is the norm in Saudia Arabia.

Peace :namaste:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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acinteyyo
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by acinteyyo » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:08 pm

clw_uk wrote:The problem is that normal is relative. If we look at the bonobo species, it isn't normal to not engage in homosexual activity.
The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... mal_2.html;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is all nice and interesting to some extent, but bonobos aren't humans and that they are closely related to humans proves nothing. Pigs are also closely related to humans, that doesn't mean that the behaviour of pigs is comparable to humans.
clw_uk wrote:I assume your not a homosexual, so you probably don't understand what it feels like to be called a "deviant" or 'not normal".
I'm not, you are right but I think I know what it feels like to be called a "deviant" or "not normal". Maybe I just lack empathy. The thing is I don't understand why it's so important for you for example to be called "normal".
I'll give you a comparison.
I'm the only buddhist in my family and circle of friends. Some accept that, others tell me they think I'm not normal. However I don't have a problem with those who call me weird or a hippie because I meditate. I just don't expect them to consider any of my behaviour to be "normal".
clw_uk wrote:So you see, although I'm sure you don't mean to cause offence, calling a gay man or woman a "deviant" or "not normal" won't be taken very well and it will usually illicit an emotional response; because homosexuals have had to put up with being stigmatised as outcasts for centuries and the usual justification for this persecution is that we are abnormal.
I understand that and that's why I usually refrain from saying anything, because I don't want to create negative emotional responses.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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clw_uk
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by clw_uk » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:52 am

acinteyyo -

This is all nice and interesting to some extent, but bonobos aren't humans and that they are closely related to humans proves nothing. Pigs are also closely related to humans, that doesn't mean that the behaviour of pigs is comparable to humans.
Your missing my point, which was that what is "normal" is relative. In terms of nature as a whole, homosexuality is quite normal.

I'm not, you are right but I think I know what it feels like to be called a "deviant" or "not normal". Maybe I just lack empathy. The thing is I don't understand why it's so important for you for example to be called "normal".
I'll give you a comparison.

I'm the only buddhist in my family and circle of friends. Some accept that, others tell me they think I'm not normal. However I don't have a problem with those who call me weird or a hippie because I meditate. I just don't expect them to consider any of my behaviour to be "normal".
Because more often that not using the phrase "not normal" in relation to homosexuality is often the springboard for launching into anti-gay rhetoric. Its too closely bound up with negative connotations.

There is a world of difference between being the only Buddhist in your family compared to being the only homosexual in a family/society. BTW it is normal for humans to engage in spiritual practices ;)


I understand that and that's why I usually refrain from saying anything, because I don't want to create negative emotional responses.
Personally I'm not offended, but I'm trying to make you aware of how your speech can be interpreted by other people. Most homosexual's wont react positively to being labelled "not normal" due to the way the term has been used in the past.

It would be considered more polite to use the term minority instead of "not normal".
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SamKR
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by SamKR » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:59 pm

"Sexual Minority" sounds much better than "deviant" or "not normal".

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Ben
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by Ben » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:29 pm

Homosexuality is very normal.
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acinteyyo
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by acinteyyo » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:58 pm

clw_uk wrote:acinteyyo -

This is all nice and interesting to some extent, but bonobos aren't humans and that they are closely related to humans proves nothing. Pigs are also closely related to humans, that doesn't mean that the behaviour of pigs is comparable to humans.
Your missing my point, which was that what is "normal" is relative. In terms of nature as a whole, homosexuality is quite normal.

I'm not, you are right but I think I know what it feels like to be called a "deviant" or "not normal". Maybe I just lack empathy. The thing is I don't understand why it's so important for you for example to be called "normal".
I'll give you a comparison.

I'm the only buddhist in my family and circle of friends. Some accept that, others tell me they think I'm not normal. However I don't have a problem with those who call me weird or a hippie because I meditate. I just don't expect them to consider any of my behaviour to be "normal".
Because more often that not using the phrase "not normal" in relation to homosexuality is often the springboard for launching into anti-gay rhetoric. Its too closely bound up with negative connotations.

There is a world of difference between being the only Buddhist in your family compared to being the only homosexual in a family/society. BTW it is normal for humans to engage in spiritual practices ;)


I understand that and that's why I usually refrain from saying anything, because I don't want to create negative emotional responses.
Personally I'm not offended, but I'm trying to make you aware of how your speech can be interpreted by other people. Most homosexual's wont react positively to being labelled "not normal" due to the way the term has been used in the past.

It would be considered more polite to use the term minority instead of "not normal".
Points taken :anjali:
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

chownah
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Re: i am a woman but i like women - is it really bad?

Post by chownah » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:50 pm

Bundokji wrote:
chownah wrote:Haven't read most of this thread but one factor which some mentioned as a detractor to same sex sex is that it goes against social norms. I think these people should take a look at the fact that same sex marriage is now legal everywhere in the USA so it seems that same sex sex has been officially sanctioned. I guess then that social norms can not be used as a detractor for same sex sex in the USA.
chownah
Social norms and civil law are two different things. For example, in Saudia Arabia there is no civil law that ban women from driving, but its socially unacceptable.

However, law makers can accelerate social change. Once again, back in the sixties, the religious community in Saudia Arabia was against female education, and when the king at that time (king Faisal) wanted to establish a school for Females, most of the conservatives protested, but he insisted that its not compulsory and if they don't want to educate their daughters no one would force them to do so. Nowadays female education is the norm in Saudia Arabia.

Peace :namaste:
So I guess it depends on what social group you are running around with....if it is all same sex people then it is the social norm.....also, laws are part of the social norm usually.
chownah

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