How to recover after heartbreak

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:01 am

binocular wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:40 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:04 pm
Now being a Buddhist, I can't raise my voice or be vehement let alone be verbally abusive. And she knows that. And used it to its hilt.
That rankles deeply ..
It can rankle only if one regrets being a Buddhist.
No. I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by santa100 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:35 pm

No_Mind wrote:I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.
Goodness done with real wholesome intent cannot be used as a weapon against the giver. There's that common philosophical question about how one'd feel when one's good was stolen by a thief, and then how one'd feel knowing that that thief has a crippled wife and his son is mentally retarded. And even in the case the thief steals not out of desperation but for his own indulgences, just remember in some respect, kamma is a financial transaction, a form of cash flow with guaranteed returns. So if the giver was taken advantage of, it's inevitable that the cheater will have to pay back the debt in some way, shape, or form in the future. So from that angle, wholesome kamma is the best and the safest form of "investment" for the ROI is risk-free, unlike those done on stocks, bonds, or derivatives market. This also helps explaining the seemingly utter injustice in life, why there're people in this world who always have folks coming to his aid while he himself never had to lift a finger, while others working their behinds off, constantly struggle their whole life just to make ends meet.

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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:24 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:35 pm
No_Mind wrote:I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.
Goodness done with real wholesome intent cannot be used as a weapon against the giver. There's that common philosophical question about how one'd feel when one's good was stolen by a thief, and then how one'd feel knowing that that thief has a crippled wife and his son is mentally retarded. And even in the case the thief steals not out of desperation but for his own indulgences, just remember in some respect, kamma is a financial transaction, a form of cash flow with guaranteed returns. So if the giver was taken advantage of, it's inevitable that the cheater will have to pay back the debt in some way, shape, or form in the future. So from that angle, wholesome kamma is the best and the safest form of "investment" for the ROI is risk-free, unlike those done on stocks, bonds, or derivatives market. This also helps explaining the seemingly utter injustice in life, why there're people in this world who always have folks coming to his aid while he himself never had to lift a finger, while others working their behinds off, constantly struggle their whole life just to make ends meet.
You misunderstand santa.

I meant she knows that unlike a "normal" guy I will not confront her because it will upset several aspects of my practice. That is my "goodness" being used against me.

I won't barge into her house, raise my voice, accuse her, .. etc tantrums that a normal, non-practicing, non-Buddhist fellow will resort to.

I do believe in Kamma and that is why I have done nothing except call her a con woman over WhatsApp and after few hours regretted the same since it was not Right Speech (I have also asked how she sleeps at night and not regretted the same since it falls within Right Speech as per my reading of https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... index.html)

This is not simply an agony aunt story .. it is a discussion about when rubber meets the road .. what happens when a "real" Buddhist comes face to face with people who lead unskillful lives and are hell bent on introducing that lack of skills into lives of others.

It can be a sociopath or a drunk driver.

The obvious answer is to be mindful.

But one already has to be mindful about work, daily life, other difficult circumstances. There is in any person a limited amount of mindfulness. It tends to get distributed between issues A, B, C ..

Of course my obvious go to (that is keeping me sane) are Hindu/Buddhist explanations-

1. I might have owed her in past life
2. She and her kids might have been my wife and kids in past life and in hour of her dire need for 45 days Kamma made them my family so I could be a "father" again.
3. Dhamma meant me to feel the pain so the practice can be stronger
4. Dhamma was testing my resolve and found I will go astray to a point but not beyond what is entirely civil (such as in anger would not strike her)
5. I am a lifelong bachelor but had "vivaha yoga" (was fated to be married and have children in this lifetime) and since I would not marry, "Vidhata" (aspect of Divinity/supramundane related to fate and Kamma) decided to put me through a faux-marriage such that I remained single but my "yoga" was fulfilled by being a faux-father for 45 days (this is a Hindu belief, not Buddhist one)

or any combination of the above.

Please forgive wrong grammar. Little agitated.

:namaste:
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binocular
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by binocular » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:19 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:01 am
No. I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.
Why do you regret that?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:00 pm

binocular wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:19 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:01 am
No. I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.
Why do you regret that?
Better to quote from literature than write myself,

"Droll thing life is -- that mysterious arrangement of merciless logic for a futile purpose. The most you can hope from it is some knowledge of yourself -- that comes too late -- a crop of inextinguishable regrets.

Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness"

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Alīno
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by Alīno » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:56 pm

If its broken and painfull, then just lay down this burden and live freely :)
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:55 am

Alīno wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:56 pm
If its broken and painfull, then just lay down this burden and live freely :)
Thank you for your response.

There is no burden. The immediate hurt has passed.

In past 48 hours I have done a rethink and re-framed it as a great opportunity to explore the self, shadow, anima and animus

I now believe that understanding of Buddhism is quite impossible without at least preliminary understanding of Jungian theories.

If I suppress and move on, that will be superficial; it is going to bubble up again, maybe in a different way. It is not going to go away by meditation or mindfulness alone.

The night the Buddha awakened, the story of Mara, is probably the most overlooked part of Buddhism (that I have studied till now). It is without doubt metaphorical but carries immense lessons.

A good teacher can probably tutor a novice monk through it without a detour into western psychology. But I am afraid that all the lay but serious Buddhists out there would have to make this detour.

There are things not easily available to us - meditating in charnel ground, meditating on a corpse etc - and thus understanding of basic and "proven" psychological theories are needed to inculcate some understanding.

Practice is all very good for becoming steady, calm and virtuous. Bu that has limited appeal. After 1-5 years one begins to tire of it. And seeks excitement of some sort. That has to be uprooted from the mind. And can only happen through a "controlled" trauma.

I am not even sure .. if I was actually seeking it.

The mind is strange. It works in ways that we are incapable of understanding.
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Alīno
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by Alīno » Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:17 pm

I think its a good think to get one's heart break. Because it's a unique opportunity to be desenchanted with male female relationship...
When I was young my heart was broken once, and until this day I was completely desenchanted with what people call "love". There is no "love" in my opinion, just mutual interest.

A male primate offers money, security, humour etc.
A female primate offers she's skin, hairs, muscles, bones, entrails, excrements etc, home services, gentleness etc.

So it's just a transaction. And when one find a better provider, or he thinks that his offering is bigger then reward, s/he go away and find another primate on the love market...

The main thing why we want to be with someone is our need for stability, security, comfort etc... it's all about stability. And why we unconsciously desire stability? Because all conditioned things are impermanent, all falls apart, changes, waves ... completely unstable, and attachment to what is unstable is cause of dukkha. So all we do in our lay life's is just fighting with anicca... Anicca of our bodies, anicca of our employeer's company, anicca of our self... While we enjoy company actualy we enjoy the sense of stability of our self, because while interacting with others we feel alife, we feel our existance, it's a bhava tanha... So while we attach ourselves and get fusion with another beings, while they go away we feel like some part of "our self", some part of "me" gone away, and by going away a big wound is created, so there is a lot of blood and suffering. Like a sand castle from which we took some sand, it looses it's stability and shape, eventually falls apart... It's makes us suffer...
We suffer not because this or that person is gone, but because we feel great anicca of our "me". All we want is stability, relax a little in this ocean of dukkha... But there is only one thing who can provide us perfect stability, unshakable stability, unconditioned stability... is Nibbana... That's why a wise person don't seek for wordly things, don't seek for conditioned things, but putt all his effort into the practice of N8P, because it's a the only way to complete freedom from unstability of causes and conditions... Nibbana is a perfect companion, perfect Refuge, because once you meet it, it will never leave you like your job, your, friends, your companion, your body, your "self", your form, feeling, memory, mental formations
, sense consciousness ...
There is no dukkha for one who live a homeless live, who don't live in 5 khandhas, don't living in 5 Khandhas he don't die with 5 khandhas... Mara can not kill someone who is already dead... So we should die each time when something is gone... it's gone, so it's gone...

To live a happy life we should better not attach to nothing..
To get a happy journey throught the forest we should better not to take all flowers and stones in our bag..
We should better glide on our sense information like on the open ice; not being stuck in it like walking throught the forest dirt...
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:53 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:50 am
Hi,

I need you guys .. really .. like never before.

I would be turning 50 in about 8 months. I had developed remarkably strong practice from September last year (that was why I became infrequent here).

I was so happy, so calm. Everyone was amazed by the change they saw in me.

Anyway, then the 49th birthday happened on June 17th.

Exactly a month later, on July 17th, I was overcome by panic about approaching old age (which might very well last between 55 and 95 due to modern medication .. a debilitating and humiliating process during which your dignity and independence is stripped away from you bit by bit .. quantity of life has improved due to medicine but not quality .. after 55 it is the same story now as it was back in 1970) and downloaded Tinder.

I have used Tinder before but really casually. In India there are very limited choices for meeting a potential mate other than online. No book clubs, no group activity .. even the traditional Indian arranged marriage system has moved completely online long ago.

But this time I was in it to search for a partner who was around my age and lived reasonably close .. for companionship/living together/marriage .. anything.

I came across and fell in love with a woman who is a full-blown sociopath. I have previously urged others to stay away from sociopaths but didn't follow my own advice.

She blended her sociopathic tendencies with a sob story (that is as far as I can tell at least partially real).

Last Tuesday evening, the 5th, out of the blue she told me she is moving to Delhi and would therefore like to friend-zone me (just that morning we had talked, and there had been no hint about her moving away permanently so soon .. she had previously said it would be in March 2020 .. and I had said okay that gives me about 4 months to persuade you to stay back)

I got nothing against friend-zoning .. but to do it after a 45-day relationship during which you have bled the guy's bank balance to almost zero by taking loans is a bit harsh.

I got annoyed and called her a con woman (something about which I later expressed regret because it is not Right Speech) ..

Bank balance will be earned back in due course, but my practice is totally shot.

I still remember an evening in mid-September just before this when I was listening to Ajahn Brahm, and all was peaceful and thinking this is Nibbana.

Please tell me things .. good, bad, scold me, make fun of me, but don't ignore me.

I can not take this to my siblings or friends because loaning out money to a relative stranger is considered an act of lunacy here. I am afraid they might seriously consider committing me to an asylum.

I forgot all the rules .. don't lend money to strangers, avoid sociopaths, be careful about falling in love too quickly above the age of 30 because it gets harder to recover as the choices you have in life are more limited as you grow older .. and so on.

(typed I so many times :embarassed:)

Edit Add - For those who do not know about sociopaths (not psychopaths) this is a neat summary

:namaste:

No_Mind
I'm not sure how to recover from a broken heart. My first instinct is to encourage you to practice metta for yourself. If time permits, also add karuna.

Regarding what you have been through, a general rule of thumb applies: Always be kind and never be naive. One of the fastest ways for people to stop being kind is to see their kindness betrayed. If you want to protect your good will, be careful in your actions. You can have good will in your mind, but your actions should not make you vulnerable to be taken advantage of. Something similar happens in romantic relationships, where good will is mixed with strong desire. "Love is blindness"... If you're involved with someone, you should strive to always have your eyes open.

Metta.
:anjali:
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

confusedlayman
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by confusedlayman » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:12 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:50 am
Hi,

I need you guys .. really .. like never before.

I would be turning 50 in about 8 months. I had developed remarkably strong practice from September last year (that was why I became infrequent here).

I was so happy, so calm. Everyone was amazed by the change they saw in me.

Anyway, then the 49th birthday happened on June 17th.

Exactly a month later, on July 17th, I was overcome by panic about approaching old age (which might very well last between 55 and 95 due to modern medication .. a debilitating and humiliating process during which your dignity and independence is stripped away from you bit by bit .. quantity of life has improved due to medicine but not quality .. after 55 it is the same story now as it was back in 1970) and downloaded Tinder.

I have used Tinder before but really casually. In India there are very limited choices for meeting a potential mate other than online. No book clubs, no group activity .. even the traditional Indian arranged marriage system has moved completely online long ago.

But this time I was in it to search for a partner who was around my age and lived reasonably close .. for companionship/living together/marriage .. anything.

I came across and fell in love with a woman who is a full-blown sociopath. I have previously urged others to stay away from sociopaths but didn't follow my own advice.

She blended her sociopathic tendencies with a sob story (that is as far as I can tell at least partially real).

Last Tuesday evening, the 5th, out of the blue she told me she is moving to Delhi and would therefore like to friend-zone me (just that morning we had talked, and there had been no hint about her moving away permanently so soon .. she had previously said it would be in March 2020 .. and I had said okay that gives me about 4 months to persuade you to stay back)

I got nothing against friend-zoning .. but to do it after a 45-day relationship during which you have bled the guy's bank balance to almost zero by taking loans is a bit harsh.

I got annoyed and called her a con woman (something about which I later expressed regret because it is not Right Speech) ..

Bank balance will be earned back in due course, but my practice is totally shot.

I still remember an evening in mid-September just before this when I was listening to Ajahn Brahm, and all was peaceful and thinking this is Nibbana.

Please tell me things .. good, bad, scold me, make fun of me, but don't ignore me.

I can not take this to my siblings or friends because loaning out money to a relative stranger is considered an act of lunacy here. I am afraid they might seriously consider committing me to an asylum.

I forgot all the rules .. don't lend money to strangers, avoid sociopaths, be careful about falling in love too quickly above the age of 30 because it gets harder to recover as the choices you have in life are more limited as you grow older .. and so on.

(typed I so many times :embarassed:)

Edit Add - For those who do not know about sociopaths (not psychopaths) this is a neat summary

:namaste:

No_Mind
Y not become a monk?
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:26 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:53 pm
Regarding what you have been through, a general rule of thumb applies: Always be kind and never be naive.
Thanks for the kind response.

How I wish someone reminded me about this on day 6. But I guess I needed to learn a lesson the hard way.

What really hurts is I can't tell anyone. I can't take this to my friends, drink a beer, watch a football match and work it out of my system.

It would have been easier to seek solace if I had been drunk and been in a hit and run.

Lending money to a relatively unknown person is seen in poor light here. Even my kindest friend would explode and my sisters would probably forever shun me.

I did something that carries a social taboo (not because I lent to a woman .. but anyone)

No one would have been unkind if I took young women from Tinder to nightclubs and blew it .. but falling for a sob story from a stranger and trying to "rescue" .. unacceptable behavior

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

binocular
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:01 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:00 pm
binocular wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:19 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:01 am
No. I regret being caught in a situation where my "goodness" is used as a weapon to hurt me with.
Why do you regret that?
Better to quote from literature than write myself,

"Droll thing life is -- that mysterious arrangement of merciless logic for a futile purpose. The most you can hope from it is some knowledge of yourself -- that comes too late -- a crop of inextinguishable regrets.

Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness"
Well, maybe some day you'll get serious and leave this romanticism/idealism behind.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Digity
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by Digity » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:54 am

No one should lend money to someone they just meet off the internet. This isn't just a thing in your country/culture. The truth is you demonstrated poor judgement and I feel like you're trying to play the victim. You're focusing too much on how you were just trying to be a good Buddhist and got taken advantage of. Being a good Buddhist also involves being discerning and practicing common sense and good judgement. I feel bad for what happened, but please use better judgement next time and never lend money in situations like this.

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No_Mind
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by No_Mind » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:04 am

Digity wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:54 am
No one should lend money to someone they just meet off the internet. This isn't just a thing in your country/culture. The truth is you demonstrated poor judgement and I feel like you're trying to play the victim. You're focusing too much on how you were just trying to be a good Buddhist and got taken advantage of. Being a good Buddhist also involves being discerning and practicing common sense and good judgement. I feel bad for what happened, but please use better judgement next time and never lend money in situations like this.

Our society depends on some rules or some sort of a contract. My episode and post was about a Dhammic person coming into contact with a person who does not believe in that "social contract" (misuse of the phrase but no choice).

If you invite me to your home, you do not expect that I will suddenly bash in your child's head with a frying pan, do you? Is that written anywhere? No. Do you expect me to not bash little kids with a frying pan. Yes.

And as I learned .. Buddhists need to be careful. More so than most others. Due to obvious reasons. We are taught compassion, metta, dana.

Was I victim to a sociopath's whims. Yes.

Should I have been more vigilant. Maybe and also maybe not. I acted in good faith. I lent her for household expenses 15 days after I came to know her and because her business was in the red and she was short of funds till December. I upheld my end of the social contract.

End of story.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Akashad
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Re: How to recover after heartbreak

Post by Akashad » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:05 am

Don't lend money on anybody on tinder.Don't use tinder period.

Like think about the type of people who go on tinder. Those casual flighty types *shivers*.

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