Parents

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
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Sam Vara
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Parents

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:00 pm

I've just seen this nice quote from "Maverick Philosopher" Bill Vallicella, on parents:

Honor them for what was honorable in them. As for the rest, forgive and forget, or at least forgive. Honor the honorable; forgive the rest.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Parents

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm

Greetings,
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:00 pm
Honor them for what was honorable in them. As for the rest, forgive and forget, or at least forgive. Honor the honorable; forgive the rest.
Nice. I notice that's written in past tense, which assumes deceased parents, and for deceased parents that's a very healthy attitude to adopt.

Things do have the potential though to be a bit more complicated when they are living, however...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

binocular
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Re: Parents

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:14 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:00 pm
I've just seen this nice quote from "Maverick Philosopher" Bill Vallicella, on parents:

Honor them for what was honorable in them. As for the rest, forgive and forget, or at least forgive. Honor the honorable; forgive the rest.
What does it mean to "forgive"?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Parents

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:15 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
Things do have the potential though to be a bit more complicated when they are living, however...
Not necessarily. Plenty of people are still ruled by their parents as if they were alive, even though the parents have been dead for decades.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Sam Vara
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Re: Parents

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:14 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:00 pm
I've just seen this nice quote from "Maverick Philosopher" Bill Vallicella, on parents:

Honor them for what was honorable in them. As for the rest, forgive and forget, or at least forgive. Honor the honorable; forgive the rest.
What does it mean to "forgive"?
To stop feeling angry or resentful about someone because of what they did wrong.

binocular
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Re: Parents

Post by binocular » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:19 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 am
To stop feeling angry or resentful about someone because of what they did wrong.
That's a strange combination.

If one is sure that someone did something wrong, one feels righteous indignation or contempt, but not anger or resentment.

One feels anger or resentment when one isn't sure whether something is wrong or not.

Forgiving has to do with being sure that something was wrong (that's why it feels good to forgive). When this surety is lacking, forgiveness is impossible.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Sam Vara
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Re: Parents

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:23 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:19 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:21 am
To stop feeling angry or resentful about someone because of what they did wrong.
That's a strange combination.

If one is sure that someone did something wrong, one feels righteous indignation or contempt, but not anger or resentment.

One feels anger or resentment when one isn't sure whether something is wrong or not.

Forgiving has to do with being sure that something was wrong (that's why it feels good to forgive). When this surety is lacking, forgiveness is impossible.
It was a dictionary definition that I Googled. Thanks, but I'm not really interested in arguing about use of language.

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Parents

Post by salayatananirodha » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:14 pm

for a mother, it's easy, she held you in her womb long enough for you to be born and did not have an abortion
so, even if she is the worst mother, she did not kill you
father is harder, my father i don't remember teaching me many values.. 'it is what it is' is one quote i remember from him. other than that and a gift here or there, was he much more than a sperm donor? but i suppose if you value this life then a fertilized egg is enough to be grateful for
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

polo
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Re: Parents

Post by polo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:05 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:14 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:00 pm
I've just seen this nice quote from "Maverick Philosopher" Bill Vallicella, on parents:

Honor them for what was honorable in them. As for the rest, forgive and forget, or at least forgive. Honor the honorable; forgive the rest.
What does it mean to "forgive"?
What does it mean to "forgive". To forgive means you had bear grudge against someone and you forgive them for their wrong doing or perceived wrong doing.
That's why if someone said to you, "please forgive me" if you did not bear grudge against him or her you would be kind of surprised and you would probably say, "Forgive you for what?"

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budo
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Re: Parents

Post by budo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Forgiveness is to recognize self-improvement in others. To ask for forgiveness is to be shameful, and to be shameful is to recognize your own self-improvement.

binocular
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Re: Parents

Post by binocular » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:54 am

polo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:05 pm
What does it mean to "forgive". To forgive means you had bear grudge against someone and you forgive them for their wrong doing or perceived wrong doing.
That's why if someone said to you, "please forgive me" if you did not bear grudge against him or her you would be kind of surprised and you would probably say, "Forgive you for what?"
I asked the OP about what is meant by "forgiveness" because especially in the context of parents and children, the situation is specific.

Namely, children don't automatically feel wronged by their parents, even if the parents have done to them things that are punishable by law. Children will sometimes feel responsible for what their parents do to them, regardless of what it is; or the children feel they deserve it; or believe that "this is simply how life is". In neither of these cases, the child feels that the parent has done something wrong (even if by law, it may be wrong). So for the child, there is nothing to forgive. Nevertheless, the child may be filled with anger and resentment. Telling such a child, or the adult he has become, that he needs to "forgive his parents" is not something meaningful to such a person.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

polo
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Re: Parents

Post by polo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:53 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:54 am
polo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:05 pm
What does it mean to "forgive". To forgive means you had bear grudge against someone and you forgive them for their wrong doing or perceived wrong doing.
That's why if someone said to you, "please forgive me" if you did not bear grudge against him or her you would be kind of surprised and you would probably say, "Forgive you for what?"
I asked the OP about what is meant by "forgiveness" because especially in the context of parents and children, the situation is specific.

Namely, children don't automatically feel wronged by their parents, even if the parents have done to them things that are punishable by law. Children will sometimes feel responsible for what their parents do to them, regardless of what it is; or the children feel they deserve it; or believe that "this is simply how life is". In neither of these cases, the child feels that the parent has done something wrong (even if by law, it may be wrong). So for the child, there is nothing to forgive. Nevertheless, the child may be filled with anger and resentment. Telling such a child, or the adult he has become, that he needs to "forgive his parents" is not something meaningful to such a person.
Oh pardon me, did i missed the question. I often wonder when my foolishness will pack up and go like what my memory is doing now bit by bit.

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