Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:50 pm

I said the suffering that would be caused if Trumps plans WERE PUT INTO EFFECT.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:50 pm

robertk wrote:Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?


It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:08 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
robertk wrote:Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?


It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary
But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:13 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.


Are you sure? Those links are referring to the averages and the median, not the exceptions. Maybe you are thinking of non-tenured asst. professors and lecturers?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:29 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:But most professors do not have these high wages. Most professors are now "contract faculty" with low pay and tenuous job security.


Are you sure? Those links are referring to the averages and the median, not the exceptions. Maybe you are thinking of non-tenured asst. professors and lecturers?
Well, in Canada at least, most professors are not tenured. They have contract positions that constantly rotate, and universities do not have to pay them the wages of an actual tenured professor. So yes, if you have tenure, a job as a professor can be very comfortable, but that is a big "if", universities do not have to pay contract faculty much above minimum wage if they want to in Canada.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:37 pm

Okay, thanks for the info. That may be the case in the U.S. too with so many earning Ph.D.s the old supply-and-demand, salaries may have gone lower or stabilized with the contract arrangements; I've been out of academia for over 20 years.

To tie this back to the OP somehow: :mrgreen:

Bhikkhu Bodhi has a Ph.D. from Clairemeont Graduate School, a fairly prestigious graduate school. He could have been a professor almost any where making high salary, but instead chose to be a good monk; admirable, imo.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby chownah » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:17 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
robertk wrote:Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?


It might be a typo or maybe they are referring to how much the salary went up by?

NYU has one of the highest salaries for professors, the average being $218,811
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/prof ... _KO0,9.htm

Here is an old report from almost 10 years ago showing a median salary of $98,974 for all universities in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor ... tes#Salary

Concerning it might be how much the salary went up:
"The promotion comes with an 18 percent raise to $80,000, a source said."
This would mean that before the raise he was making more than $400,000.....unlikely.
mathematics is powerful
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby chownah » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:29 am

Concerning the prof. who was censured and then promoted, I think it would be good to bring his thoughts on all this to this thread:
Here’s what happened when I challenged the PC campus culture at NYU
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/03/campus-pc-culture-is-so-rampant-that-nyu-is-paying-to-silence-me/?utm_term=.6f0596af7fe7
These are the thoughts of someone who Yale University supports. Perhaps higher education is not as bad as some people are suggesting.
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Phena » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:36 am

So it seems the person that the Prof. wants to speak at his university is none other than the alt-right's and Breitbart News' pin-up boy, Milo Yiannopoulos. I would say well done and good decision to New York University for banning his appearance. They got it right. This is the guy Twitter banned for trolling the comedian and actress Leslie Jones. In fact trolling seems to be one of his specialties along with racist and hate speech.

From what I gleaned from this article, much of the Prof's gripe is centred around the so-called political correctness that is being adhered to and the freedom of speech that is apparently being violated. Well, when it comes to a choice between speech that is tainted with hate and that can incite others to extremes in an already charged environment, I'll take political correctness any day; and the nanny state and all the tags and labels the right-wing use to try to silence any opposition and criticism of them. Essentially this is what it is at the end of the day. It's a bullying tactic designed to shut people down, ironically the same charge that they level that others are apparently doing to them. It's a clever tactic, but don't be conned.

Furthermore, this notion that we should have free speech at any cost without it coming with responsibility attached is dangerous and flawed, because without any qualification to this ideal, anyone can use any megaphone of the of mass media to incite and vilify. I would say why give a platform to a character like Yiannopoulos? Obviously, NYU asked the same question, as did Twitter.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby JackOfHearts » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:17 pm

Although Bhikkhu Bodhi lost all credibility as a Dhamma teacher for me with his advocacy for a doctrine of Just War, here, though he couches it as "defending women's reproductive rights," he's advocating for women's right to have an abortion. No matter how much I'd like to sugarcoat it, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that once again Bhikkhu Bodhi is encouraging people to violate the first precept. I take it as further evidence of a fundamental failure by Bhikkhu Bodhi to understand the Dhamma at even a basic level despite his deep familiarity with the suttas. Shocking, I know. But his statements are absolutely irreconcilable with the Dhamma unless you are willing to throw out the teachings of all the Ajahns and the Pali Canon itself. Myself, the only way to reconcile the irreconcilable is to reluctantly admit that despite his admirable efforts in translating the Canon, I cannot hold him up as any sort of Dhamma teacher.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:00 am

I cannot hold him up as any sort of Dhamma teacher.

I share your frustration but we can't discount his contribution to our understanding of Buddha's teaching.
I can't think of my learning without Ven Bodhi's guidance.
All the teacher I know including Ven. Thanissaro Ajhan Chah etc they all have some points we can not reconcile with.
I think we have to find the Buddha within ourselves not from outside.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Mkoll » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:30 am

JackOfHearts wrote:Although Bhikkhu Bodhi lost all credibility as a Dhamma teacher for me with his advocacy for a doctrine of Just War, here, though he couches it as "defending women's reproductive rights," he's advocating for women's right to have an abortion. No matter how much I'd like to sugarcoat it, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that once again Bhikkhu Bodhi is encouraging people to violate the first precept. I take it as further evidence of a fundamental failure by Bhikkhu Bodhi to understand the Dhamma at even a basic level despite his deep familiarity with the suttas. Shocking, I know. But his statements are absolutely irreconcilable with the Dhamma unless you are willing to throw out the teachings of all the Ajahns and the Pali Canon itself. Myself, the only way to reconcile the irreconcilable is to reluctantly admit that despite his admirable efforts in translating the Canon, I cannot hold him up as any sort of Dhamma teacher.

Which Ajahns are explicitly against all abortion, besides Ven. Thanissaro? And what passages in the Canon, besides the one I know of about the gandhabba descending into the womb, detail what happens during conception and pregnancy?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:54 am

Greetings Mkoll,

Mkoll wrote:Which Ajahns are explicitly against all abortion, besides Ven. Thanissaro?

It might make more sense to turn that question on its head and point out that none could be explicitly for abortion, because...

The four transgressions which incur a Parajika, the penalty of automatic disrobal, are as follows:...

3. Purposely killing a human being or encouraging him or her to commit suicide (this includes inciting another to murder somebody and it also includes convincing a woman to have an abortion.

(Source)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

“One to whom it might occur, ‘I’m a woman’ or ‘I’m a man’. Or ‘I’m anything at all’— Is fit for Mara to address.” (SN 5.2)

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Mkoll » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:17 am

Good point, retro. But, what defines "convincing a woman to have an abortion"? I mean, how explicit or implicit does it have to be to qualify for that? Surely, this is a statement open to interpretation. What do the commentaries have to say? Some would construe Ven. Bodhi's statements as doing this, others would not. So who is to say whether what he has said is a parajika offense? Also, I'd like to see the Pali on this dissected by one of our resident grammarians ;).
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:34 am

it also includes convincing a woman to have an abortion.


:goodpost: Retro.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:52 am

Greetings Mkoll,

Mkoll wrote:Good point, retro. But, what defines "convincing a woman to have an abortion"? I mean, how explicit or implicit does it have to be to qualify for that?

If you want to investigate further, I would recommend downloading Thanissaro Bhikkhu's "Buddhist Monastic Code" parts 1 & 2 and doing a word-search on the term "abortion". There's extra clarification and commentarial source material in there.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

“One to whom it might occur, ‘I’m a woman’ or ‘I’m a man’. Or ‘I’m anything at all’— Is fit for Mara to address.” (SN 5.2)

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:01 am

In the article Bhikkhu Bodhi mentions:

He threatened to deny women their reproductive rights and access to critical healthcare.


I assume that is referring to Planned Parenthood and the funding and de-funding issues related to this agency.

Bhikkhu Bodhi did not mention abortion, at least not directly.

Abortion is just one of the things provided by Planned Parenthood:

wikipedia wrote:The services provided by PPFA affiliates vary by location, with just over half of all Planned Parenthood affiliates in the United States performing abortions.[46] Services provided by PPFA include birth control and long-acting reversible contraception;[47] emergency contraception; breast and cervical cancer screening; pregnancy testing and pregnancy options counseling; testing and treatment for sexually transmitted infections; sex education; vasectomies; LGBT services; and abortion.[48][49]

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby santa100 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:23 am

More ongoing discussions about Ven. Bodhi's article including the venerable's own comments and clarification is available here. If you have comment or need any clarification, feel free to post it there so the venerable can address it directly.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby chownah » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:39 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Mkoll,

Mkoll wrote:Which Ajahns are explicitly against all abortion, besides Ven. Thanissaro?

It might make more sense to turn that question on its head and point out that none could be explicitly for abortion, because...

The four transgressions which incur a Parajika, the penalty of automatic disrobal, are as follows:...

3. Purposely killing a human being or encouraging him or her to commit suicide (this includes inciting another to murder somebody and it also includes convincing a woman to have an abortion.

(Source)

Metta,
Paul. :)

Some say that immediately upon the union of the sperm and egg a sentient being is formed....others say that it happens later.
chownah

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby pulga » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:02 am

santa100 wrote:More ongoing discussions about Ven. Bodhi's article including the venerable's own comments and clarification is available here. If you have comment or need any clarification, feel free to post it there so the venerable can address it directly.


The comments to Bhikkhu Bodhi's article are well worth reading. The commentator Truth provides a well informed and effective rebuttal to the Venerable One's essay.


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