Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

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paul
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Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby paul » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:34 am


SarathW
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:47 am

I lost for words.
When I was in the uni I took a conscious decision not to continue with politics. (I was the president of the student union)
I thought I can better serve the society by being involve with business.
Latter I realised neither politicians nor business people will serve the society.
Now I think best way to serve the society is by becoming a monk. (or spreading Buddha's word)
Today I start to wonder whether I have taken the right decision.
Trump want to be a politician.
Bikkhu Bodhi (my most respected teacher) also wants to be a politician.
:juggling:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:15 am

SarathW wrote:I lost for words.

Obviously not, but you did lose one word and one letter. ;)
SarathW wrote:Bhikkhu Bodhi (my most respected teacher) also wants to be a politician.
:juggling:

I trust that Bhikkhu Bodhi has too good an understanding of the Dhamma to want to be a politician, but he does seem to have gone over more to Engaged Buddhism. That may be a reaction to spending so long on the more academic side.

Buddhist monks should speak about human rights, and do what they can to promote tolerance and understanding between different faiths. I made some comments in my latest update of The War on Error during the US Presidential Campaign. I update my book every year on the 11th of October. I don't see such efforts as engaging in politics — it is an attempt to counter extremist elements everywhere.
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SDC
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SDC » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:59 pm

paul wrote:http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,13004,0,0,1,0#.WCqroGPwy9Y


Hi Paul, we have a line in the ToS that requires an introduction when posting links. Please make sure you adhere to it in the future.

This has been moved to "Hot Topics" due to how past threads have gone regarding monks and politics. All posts require moderator approval.

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ihrjordan
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby ihrjordan » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:41 pm

This is a really touchy subject. Is it even possible to rule over a country without killing or inciting others to kill? The Buddha pondered this question and I don't recall him ever coming to a conclusion. Even Asoka caused harm after his conversion to Buddhism. (As far as I know he still permitted executions, arresting etc.)

But with that being said, this probably isn't the best piece to promote unity considering around half of this country voted for him, I'm sure some of them are Buddhists (he is against abortion after all)...He has some pros and cons but so doesn't every politician. At the end of the day, and with all due respect to Ven. Bodhi, this is probably a topic best left to political pundits and non-recluses.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Phena » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:31 am

Having listened to many Bhikkhu Bodhi talks covering a fairly large span of time, there were some occasions where he made quite pointed comments regarding greed and how the capitalist system can enable that greed to flourish, amongst other issues. I've always found his comments to be balanced and well-considered, pointing out relevant examples of how greed manifests today, so I am not at all surprised at the Venerable's latest comments in regards to Trump.

There is no doubt that Bhikkhu Bodhi has moved to a more engaged Buddhism and this is evident through the great work he does in his central role with the organisation Buddhist Global Relief. I thoroughly admire his engaged approach and greatly respect his tireless work disseminating the Dhamma and trust his judgement implicitly in pointing out greed, hatred and delusion if and when he sees it is necessary, as he has done with respect to president-elect Trump. I appreciate his straight forward words and believe he has the experience and grounding in the Dhamma to tactfully illuminate wordly matters when required.

Bhikkhu Bodhi is an excellent role model for a more engaged Theravada, while still being anchored in tradition, which I think can make it more directly relevant to lay followers, and is perhaps somewhat overdue.

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SamKR » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:52 am

paul wrote:http://buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=8,13004,0,0,1,0#.WCqroGPwy9Y

I mostly agree with Bhikkhu Bodhi here except a few things.
:clap:
Last edited by SamKR on Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mikenz66
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:04 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Buddhist monks should speak about human rights, and do what they can to promote tolerance and understanding between different faiths. I made some comments in my latest update of The War on Error during the US Presidential Campaign. I update my book every year on the 11th of October. I don't see such efforts as engaging in politics — it is an attempt to counter extremist elements everywhere.

I agree. The Buddha gave copious advice on daily life to people from rulers on down.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=259


:anjali:
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby chownah » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:28 am

Have people forgotten that there is an extensive set of rules for monks called the vinnaya. If monks follow the vinaya then they can say and do whatever they want. They are people after all and the vinnaya allows for a wide degree of freedom in a monk choosing their actions and speech.
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SarathW
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:32 am

There is no Buddha pick on any one individual though.
His opinions are general not specific.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

paul
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby paul » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:20 am

In the dark times ahead Bh.Bodhi advocates an alliance between disparate groups in society. Many leading US Buddhists are Jewish and one of the first prime ministers Trump called after victory was Israel's. It may be that the Jewish influence mitigates against US Buddhism having to go underground.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:29 am

SarathW wrote:There is no Buddha pick on any one individual though.
His opinions are general not specific.
Can you elaborate on what you meant? I think that my English has failed me. "Pick on" means "bully" to me, and I agree that the Buddha would not bully anyone.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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robertk
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:33 am

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-vs-po ... 1479233123
the Wall street journal's take on trump and polictical correctness and the internet

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Coëmgenu » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:35 am

robertk wrote:http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-vs-political-correctness-1479233123
the Wall street journal's take on trump and polictical correctness and the internet
Alas, the full article requires an account with the site in question. What is your take on the information presented in your link?
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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robertk
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:44 am

ah I didn't realise it needed an account, I get it free through my uni.

It is a bit longish but here is an extract:
Sure, we thought, Trump was politically incorrect, but he was also a rude jerk who often said things that are objectionable even if you’re not a member of the crazed alt-left that runs America’s higher-education system and is influential in the Democratic Party and the current administration.




Cathy Young, for one, remains committed to that counterargument, but we have found it increasingly difficult to stay persuaded by it. We prize civility and reason, but they are insufficient to combat political correctness, which is uncivil and unreasonable and weaponizes its enemies’ adherence to etiquette.

.....
There are bits of good news even on campus. Last month the New York Post reported New York University had forced Michael Rectenwald, a liberal studies professor, “to go on paid leave for the rest of the semester” in retaliation for having “launched an undercover Twitter account called Deplorable NYU Prof . . . to argue against campus trends like ‘safe spaces,’ ‘trigger warnings,’ policing Halloween costumes and other aspects of academia’s growing PC culture.”

Here’s the Post, post-Trump:

The politically incorrect professor on leave since his NYU colleagues griped about his “incivility” has been promoted—and his fellow liberal-studies profs were lectured about their conduct.
Michael Rectenwald, 57, was bumped from assistant professor to full professor on Monday, just days after he was placed on paid leave. The promotion comes with an 18 percent raise to $80,000, a source said.
The Detroit News reports on the emboldenment of Trump supporters at the flagship university of a state Trump carried narrowly:

Hundreds of students at the University of Michigan have signed a #NotMyCampus petition condemning university president Mark Schlissel for comments he made at a somber vigil last week following President-elect Donald Trump’s surprise victory.
“Your voices worked out to be a 90/10 decision in favor of the unsuccessful candidate yesterday,” Schlissel said in footage posted to Youtube by The Michigan Daily, the campus newspaper. “Ninety percent of you rejected the kind of hate and the fractiousness and the longing for some sort of idealized version of a nonexistent yesterday that was expressed during (Trump’s) campaign.” . . .
More than 320 students signed a petition by Monday afternoon and submitted nearly 50 pages of personal statements, many calling out Schlissel for his comments.
It is extraordinarily arrogant to assume that those who backed Trump are unequivocally supporting racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of hatred, yet that is exactly what Presidential Schlissel did,” said Reebehl El-Hage, a senior in the college of engineering. “Instead of being introspective and asking why people voted for Trump, President Schlissel denounced them.”
A few left-wing Yale students are showing signs of self-awareness, the Washington Post reports:

Some [Hillary] Clinton supporters here said the election exposed a blind spot at Yale. As an elite institution, they said, it is not sufficiently attuned to the concerns of the massive bloc of white, working-class voters in small towns and rural areas who powered Trump’s election.
“A lot of people here are out of touch with what’s going on in communities that don’t look like their communities,” said Isis Davis-Marks, 19, a sophomore from New York City.
“This election made me realize how much of a liberal bubble Yale students live in,” said Zachary Cohen, 20, a junior from New York City who edits a political journal here. That isolation left the campus largely unaware of anger and resentment elsewhere, he said. “I definitely had to come terms with the fact that there was this other half of America I had hardly seen.”
Even the New York Times . . . well, let’s not overstate this, but the paper’s publisher, Pinch Sulzberger, and top news editor, Dean Baquet, put out a letter to readers promising to cover the new administration fairly:

A

For sure, political correctness is far from dead. Just this week the Cavalier Daily reported that professors at the University of Virginia demanded their institution’s president, Teresa Sullivan, declare Thomas Jefferson, who founded UVa, corpus non grata and never quote him again.

Sullivan responded by affirming the Jefferson-haters’ “right to speak out on issues that matter to all of us”—as if their right were ever in question—though she was careful to distance herself from the third president: “Quoting Jefferson (or any historical figure) does not imply an endorsement of all the social structures and beliefs of his time.”

This sort of nonsense will probably still be with us when President Trump wraps up his first term. But we can hope there will be much less of it. Imagine if Mrs. Clinton had won. New York Times executives would be patting themselves on the back for their groundbreaking new approach to journalism; Yale students would be as smug and sheltered as ever; Prof. Rectenwald would be looking for a new career at age 57; University of Michigan Trump supporters would still be in the shadows; and so would those at Grubhub.

============================================================

Note from robert: what surprised me most is the low pay of a full professor these days in the states?

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robertk
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby robertk » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:44 am

ihrjordan wrote:This is a really touchy subject. Is it even possible to rule over a country without killing or inciting others to kill? The Buddha pondered this question and I don't recall him ever coming to a conclusion. Even Asoka caused harm after his conversion to Buddhism. (As far as I know he still permitted executions, arresting etc.)

But with that being said, this probably isn't the best piece to promote unity considering around half of this country voted for him, I'm sure some of them are Buddhists (he is against abortion after all)...He has some pros and cons but so doesn't every politician. At the end of the day, and with all due respect to Ven. Bodhi, this is probably a topic best left to political pundits and non-recluses.

yes, well said. Imho

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:24 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
SarathW wrote:There is no account of Buddha pick on any one individual though.
His opinions are general not specific.
Can you elaborate on what you meant? I think that my English has failed me. "Pick on" means "bully" to me, and I agree that the Buddha would not bully anyone.


What I meant was taking a particular individual in isolation.
Buddha did not involve with politics even though he gave general opinions.
However there are account of him criticiseing individuals in Dhamma matters only. (which is his strong hold and related to his mission)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Will
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby Will » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:58 pm

I am saddened that the Bhikkhu has been sucked into partisan political movements. In 2012 he made a video about the Occupy Wall Street movement. He describes himself as part of the progressive movement.

There have been Sangha members who have curried favor with ruling powers and those who opposed them, throughout history. I do not think the society of any era becomes more selfless or suffering is reduced thanks to some Sangha folk picking sides.
A man should not judge a man, for he harms himself very quickly, that man who judges a man.
Only I or someone like me can assess a man. --- Buddha in the Surangamasamadhi Sutra

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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby lyndon taylor » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:57 pm

I think when a candidates platform, if put into effect, would cause so much suffering for so many people, like Trumps would, I would expect any socially aware Bhikkhu to speak out against that. I think Bhikkhu Bodhi clearly made a good choice to release his statement. This isn't just another Democrat vs Republican thing, this is much worse than that. I mean a lot of people's attitudes is like Jews in Nazi Germany telling each other," don't worry, he wouldn't really do that, how much worse can it get."
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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SarathW
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Re: Bhikkhu Bodhi responds to Trump victory

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:29 pm

like Trumps would

We don't know that yet.
This is a reaction vs proactive action.
Do not forget that we are living in the information age.
Things can change much faster than what we think.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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