Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
chownah
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:03 am

Leeuwenhoek2 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:56 pm
objection.
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Proposition wrote:Solar and wind will... be able to provide continuous supply 24/365....
every indication, EVERY indication, is that the known solutions to this problem will soon be cost allowable.
Challenge: IF YOU KNOW OF SOME TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUE WHICH DEMONSTRATES THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WHICH MAKES THESE TECHNOLOGIES IMPOSSIBLE TO BE MADE COST ALLOWABLE THEN BRING IT.
Two obvious flaws in the challenge:
1) This asks for a logically impossible proof. No one can prove that in the future someone will or will not find the flying spaghetti monster or unicorns. Or 'prove a negative'.
2) Proof hinges on the idea of "cost allowable" -- a concept which is insufficiently constrained. A sufficient definition means that we would have a means of knowing, beyond dispute, that some technology was or wasn't 'cost allowable'.
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First of all, "proposition" didn't write that and neither did I....you wrote it....you seem to be trying to make this into a challenge of some sort.....a competition. You do just about everything that can be done to make the tone of the discussion adversarial and confrontational both here and previously.

If you are asking about "proof" about the future then my response is that there is none. There is no "proof" that any of the technologies will or will not develop in the ways people are hoping for. As for what I said in a previous post namely:
I'm telling you that every indication EVERY indication is that the known solutions to this problem will soon be cost allowable. IF YOU KNOW OF SOME TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUE WHICH DEMONSTRATES THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WHICH MAKES THESE TECHNOLOGIES IMPOSSIBLE TO BE MADE COST ALLOWABLE THEN BRING IT.
This is my opinion based on what I have read. Critics of solar and wind have historically and continually discounted or ignored the development of solar and wind technologies....this is not debated anywhere that I have seen. If anyone is interested they can just go read all the stuff readily available on the internet showing what the fossil fuel industry said would happen and what in fact then did happen and it is obvious. I see from my continued monitoring of developments that this same discounting or ignoring of technological development to improve solar and wind and storage is happening....I presented a short narrative in my previous post explaining this.

There are no known major technological hurdles which would indicate that it will not be possible to create adequate storage of power derived from solar and wind to be able to ensure continous supply 24/365. If you think you have found such an impediment then please bring it.

You love the article which talks about what will not happen in "the forseeable future"....when you think about this article you should remind youself of your own wisdom, namely: " No one can prove that in the future someone will or will not find the flying spaghetti monster or unicorns. Or 'prove a negative'."
chownah

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:07 am

Hi, chownah,
If you want the detail on how Tesla's new battery is performing, and just what it's doing, here it is - http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-unit-tr ... -in-85623/. (Everyone else is welcome to read it too, of course. :smile: )
If you need help with acronyms and politics, I should be able to explain most of them.

The tl;dr version is that coal generators are crashing in our heat waves and the battery is keeping the grid running - and sometimes making a tidy profit in the process.

:twothumbsup:
Kim

chownah
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:13 am

Kim Ohara,
Thanks for bringing that article....it does a great job of explaining what the neoen-tesla battery is doing. I think it shows that stability of the grid can be adequately maintained through fast response batteries and auxiliary generators. This should show that we need not worry that the intermitten nature of wind/solar will destabilize the grid.

This use of storage to stabilize the grid is one of the issues surrounding storage. The storage to adequately stabilize the grid already exists and is being implemented.

The other issue is that for a grid with ONLY wind and solar generation, when there is a long period of time when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine enough to maintain grid supply, how will the grid supply be maintained. How this will be done is not yet known. There already are times when in germany or california (for instance) there is more electricity generated than can be used so these are the times when surplus energy could be stored for later use. All that needs to be done is to start implementing methods for storing that energy. So far there is not much economic incentive to store that power because the solar/wind market penetration is still small but as more wind/solar comes on line there will be more surpluses and the economics driving storage construction will become more stimulative. There is alot of research going on in developing these long term storage devices and there is every reason to believe that by the time there is a need for them (when wind/solar increase their share of generation) they will be ready......for example the increase in battery powered vehicles expected in the next five years and onward will itself vastly increase storage....and then there are flow batteries.......and......as I have said before, if batteries don't develop to fulfill all that is needed there is always hydrogen storage....which is scaleable....and a host of other technologies as well....
chownah

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:03 am

As for nuclear ... here's an overview of the industry, worldwide, published last September.
"Stagnating" is the best one-word summary.
This is the one-page summary - https://www.worldnuclearreport.org/The- ... html#link1
And the whole report is on the same site, for anyone interested in the detail.

:namaste:
Kim

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:07 am

As for Chernobyl ...
For decades, the site of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster has remained abandoned. Now, Solar Chernobyl is building a massive solar farm on the land to provide renewable energy for those living nearby.

... According to some estimates, the nuclear fallout from the Chernobyl disaster contaminated up to 75 percent of Europe. According to Ukrainian authorities, an area larger than 2,000 square kilometers (772 square miles) near the site of the disaster is so contaminated that people won’t be able to safely live there for 24,000 years.

While a dome couldn’t possibly cover all the contaminated land, the 2016 placement of one over the reactor, which contains highly radioactive magma, has reduced radiation near the plant drastically. According to official data, it’s now at one-tenth of prior levels.

While the land still can’t be used for agriculture, it is suitable for other projects, Ostap Semerak, Ukrainian Minister of the Environment, told AFP in 2016. The Solar Chernobyl plant is one such project, and others could follow.

Olena Kovalchuk, spokeswoman of the State Administration for the zone of Chernobyl, told AFP that Kiev has received roughly 60 proposals from foreign companies interested in participating in future solar developments in the area. The cheap price of land and closeness to power grids has made the Chernobyl site attractive for investors, Oleksandr Kharchenko, executive director of the Energy Industry Research Center, told AFP. ...
https://futurism.com/chernobyl-being-tr ... ergy-farm/

I'm not going to try to explore the ironies.

:meditate:
Kim

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion of Nuclear Power and Safety

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:39 am

Meanwhile, back in Fukushima ...
Japan undecided on what to do with 1 million tonnes of radioactive water at Fukushima plant
Japanese Government officials have not figured out what to do with more than 1 million tonnes of radioactive water sitting at the site of the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant.

"A few years a go [the radioactive water was increasing by] 400 tonnes per day, but the increase per day has now gone down to around 100 tonnes per day," said Naohiro Masuda, TEPCO's chief decommissioning officer.

Just days shy of the seventh anniversary of the nuclear disaster, Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) revealed it successfully slowed the rate of contaminated water reaching the reactor facilities, but the amount was still increasing. ...

Key points:

• The rate of contaminated water reaching the facility has slowed, but is still increasing
• There are now more than 1,000 tanks of contaminated water at the site
• One controversial option for dealing with the water includes decontaminating it as much as possible and then gradually releasing it into the ocean
...
:reading: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-02/f ... ov/9504072

:namaste:
Kim

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