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When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?



:shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am
by lyndon taylor
You live in one of the most racist Western countries in the world, Retro, does that influence your opinions??

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:59 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am
You live in one of the most racist Western countries in the world, Retro, does that influence your opinions??
Do I? That's news to me.
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am
... does that influence your opinions??
I've never been particularly influenced by popular culture, either local or global... but at a subconscious level it's always hard to know exactly what influences what.

How do your questions relate to Tucker's questions?

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:06 am
by SarathW
Do I? That's news to me.
I think Australian Aborigines are treated very badly nog to mention others.
But Australia has very effective and strong legal system.
To use the legal system you need money and knowledge.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:06 am
by SarathW
Do I? That's news to me.
I think Australian Aborigines are treated very badly not to mention others.
But Australia has very effective and strong legal system.
To use the legal system you need money and knowledge.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:11 am
by SarathW
More & more it feels like racial division is the subtext of everything.
I think he got very little understanding of discrimination (Mana)
What about age, sex, religious etc divisions.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:16 am
by TamHanhHi
To Tucker's point, "we got here" because racism and bias is more intricate and hidden than people like Tucker have ever had to think about. It's linked to any social or econocomical aspect of American society, from access to grocery stores to hiring decisions at jobs. And the best (worst?) part is that it's not new, as Tucker would have us believe.

It comes from ignorance and from clinging to these temporary bodies and cultures as a self, when they really aren't. Racial and ethnic divisions are one of the murkiest social distinctions around. But alas, on one side people aren't often motivated to drop their attachment to animosity, and on the other, people cling to their supposed identities for safety even though they're inconstant, changeable, suffering... not self.
This two-footed, filthy, evil-smelling,
filled-with-various-carcasses,
oozing-out-here-&-there body:
Whoever would think,
on the basis of a body like this,
to exalt himself or disparage another:

What is that
if not blindness?
Sn 1.11

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 am
by cjmacie
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am

How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
...
And just where is the "Dharmic perspective" in this sort of (typical and incessant) bear-baiting?

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:52 pm
by Leeuwenhoek2
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am
How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
I'd expect answers would partially reflect attitudes about the person asking the question. Especially among people who have an idea about who Tucker Carlson is. Ask a question in a different way and you should expect different answers. That is a tough lesson learned by pollsters and social science research.

Of course the expression of the question in the categorical or universal form -- subtext of everything -- probably shouldn't be taken literally.

Race, class, socio-economic, personality and political viewpoint differences are all real. The Buddha focused more on questions such as how those factors are perceived and how much those perceptions are productive or counter-productive to achieving a goal of satisfaction/happiness/ well-being as well as insight/wisdom. In terms of the question at hand ... many are questioning how productive such an emphasis on race is towards achieving anti-racist goals.

The Buddha's approach bears similarities to some modern perspectives of psychology and post-modernism -- so it's a focus is familiar in western thought. That is not the only perspective, frame or lens to have on the question ... but it is the one the Buddha, a member of a ruling family and aware of other dimensions of the question, decided to focus on. My guess is that he saw that approach as the "low hanging fruit" and more than enough for one person in one life-time.

Perceptions of race is one way that attachment/clinging, greed, ignorance and fear can manifest. Privileging racism over other -isms and causes of dukkha tends towards distorted views on what is happening.

In the abstract following an -ism can be one way of responding to manifestations of greed, anger, ignorance, and fear with more greed, anger, ignorance, and fear. That is not likely to be helpful. It can manifest as a process which tends to build walls of division, putting us in a self-sealing "echo chambers". We should expect our practice to turns us towards recognizing prejudice, especially our own.

“I love humanity; it’s (those) people I can’t stand.”

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:58 pm
by pulga
A bit of Southern wisdom from the late, great Joe South.


Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm
by Circle5
When racial division is the subtext of everything...
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success. If identity politics rethoric would not be advantageous for politicians, the extreme focus on this kind of rethoric and the constant bombardment from media channels would not exist. One might very well chose to focus on class differences, on people being ugly, people being stupid, etc. Being stupid or ugly or born in the countryside is miles more important than your race, but this can not be used in politics.

In my country, all the focus is on the anti-corruption fight. It would be good if the focus would be on that too in USA and other countries. That would be much more beneficial. But it's better for politicians to keep people divided over trivial things such as transgenderism and etc. than to have them focused on much more important matters such as corruption.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm
by Leeuwenhoek2
cjmacie wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am
How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
...
And just where is the "Dharmic perspective" in this sort of (typical and incessant) bear-baiting?
I can't attest to the accuracy of the description of "(typical and incessant) bear-baiting". But, as I attempted to indicate in my last post, I would be more happy with a question posed in a more partisan neutral context. That is, minimize the "bear baiting" inducing reaction as much as possible. There is an art and intuition to that.

How to get to more partisan neutral contexts? Holding a multi-partisan / trans-partisan informed understanding and/or enjoying the advise of a ideologically diverse group.
IMO a dharmic perspective values trans-partisan understanding and the wisdom of ideological diversity. The Buddha's own path to enlightenment as well as his mode of teaching indicates this.
For more see: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=31993

--------------
On a related topic. I think class differences predict differences in the outcomes we seek more than race. That is, the goals of anti-racism might be better served by paying attention to class and socio-economic advantage. That idea comes from looking at social science data.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:36 pm
by Pseudobabble
Circle5 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm
When racial division is the subtext of everything...
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success.
:goodpost:

Once people realised being perceived as disadvantaged constituted some kind of moral trump card which rendered any opposition ethically unnacceptable.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:56 pm
by lyndon taylor
Bunch of white people saying racism is not an important issue!!

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:22 pm
by Bundokji
I will attempt to answer the "how did we get here" part of the question.

I think the status quo is an outcome of reaching a plateau in western societies especially in relation to values. Post second world war, social and political progress have been made, and things became in most western nations somehow stable. Even some would argue that western philosophy have stagnated, and science provided a lot of inventions which made life relatively easier and more predictable. However, the lack of meaning is still there.

The above unprecedented luxury might have contributed to the current situation. For instance, when there is a famine, the focus on racial division would make no sense as there will be more urgent threats to deal with.