When racial division is the subtext of everything...

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20167
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am

Greetings,

How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?



:shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am

You live in one of the most racist Western countries in the world, Retro, does that influence your opinions??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20167
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:59 am

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am
You live in one of the most racist Western countries in the world, Retro, does that influence your opinions??
Do I? That's news to me.
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:01 am
... does that influence your opinions??
I've never been particularly influenced by popular culture, either local or global... but at a subconscious level it's always hard to know exactly what influences what.

How do your questions relate to Tucker's questions?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:06 am

Do I? That's news to me.
I think Australian Aborigines are treated very badly nog to mention others.
But Australia has very effective and strong legal system.
To use the legal system you need money and knowledge.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:06 am

Do I? That's news to me.
I think Australian Aborigines are treated very badly not to mention others.
But Australia has very effective and strong legal system.
To use the legal system you need money and knowledge.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:11 am

More & more it feels like racial division is the subtext of everything.
I think he got very little understanding of discrimination (Mana)
What about age, sex, religious etc divisions.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
TamHanhHi
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:28 pm
Contact:

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by TamHanhHi » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:16 am

To Tucker's point, "we got here" because racism and bias is more intricate and hidden than people like Tucker have ever had to think about. It's linked to any social or econocomical aspect of American society, from access to grocery stores to hiring decisions at jobs. And the best (worst?) part is that it's not new, as Tucker would have us believe.

It comes from ignorance and from clinging to these temporary bodies and cultures as a self, when they really aren't. Racial and ethnic divisions are one of the murkiest social distinctions around. But alas, on one side people aren't often motivated to drop their attachment to animosity, and on the other, people cling to their supposed identities for safety even though they're inconstant, changeable, suffering... not self.
This two-footed, filthy, evil-smelling,
filled-with-various-carcasses,
oozing-out-here-&-there body:
Whoever would think,
on the basis of a body like this,
to exalt himself or disparage another:

What is that
if not blindness?
Sn 1.11
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."AN 5.38 :candle: | Blog at http://dhammareflections.wordpress.com

User avatar
cjmacie
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:49 am

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by cjmacie » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am

How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
...
And just where is the "Dharmic perspective" in this sort of (typical and incessant) bear-baiting?

User avatar
Leeuwenhoek2
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by Leeuwenhoek2 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:52 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am
How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
I'd expect answers would partially reflect attitudes about the person asking the question. Especially among people who have an idea about who Tucker Carlson is. Ask a question in a different way and you should expect different answers. That is a tough lesson learned by pollsters and social science research.

Of course the expression of the question in the categorical or universal form -- subtext of everything -- probably shouldn't be taken literally.

Race, class, socio-economic, personality and political viewpoint differences are all real. The Buddha focused more on questions such as how those factors are perceived and how much those perceptions are productive or counter-productive to achieving a goal of satisfaction/happiness/ well-being as well as insight/wisdom. In terms of the question at hand ... many are questioning how productive such an emphasis on race is towards achieving anti-racist goals.

The Buddha's approach bears similarities to some modern perspectives of psychology and post-modernism -- so it's a focus is familiar in western thought. That is not the only perspective, frame or lens to have on the question ... but it is the one the Buddha, a member of a ruling family and aware of other dimensions of the question, decided to focus on. My guess is that he saw that approach as the "low hanging fruit" and more than enough for one person in one life-time.

Perceptions of race is one way that attachment/clinging, greed, ignorance and fear can manifest. Privileging racism over other -isms and causes of dukkha tends towards distorted views on what is happening.

In the abstract following an -ism can be one way of responding to manifestations of greed, anger, ignorance, and fear with more greed, anger, ignorance, and fear. That is not likely to be helpful. It can manifest as a process which tends to build walls of division, putting us in a self-sealing "echo chambers". We should expect our practice to turns us towards recognizing prejudice, especially our own.

“I love humanity; it’s (those) people I can’t stand.”
Last edited by Leeuwenhoek2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pulga
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by pulga » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:58 pm

A bit of Southern wisdom from the late, great Joe South.


User avatar
Circle5
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 2:14 am

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by Circle5 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm

When racial division is the subtext of everything...
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success. If identity politics rethoric would not be advantageous for politicians, the extreme focus on this kind of rethoric and the constant bombardment from media channels would not exist. One might very well chose to focus on class differences, on people being ugly, people being stupid, etc. Being stupid or ugly or born in the countryside is miles more important than your race, but this can not be used in politics.

In my country, all the focus is on the anti-corruption fight. It would be good if the focus would be on that too in USA and other countries. That would be much more beneficial. But it's better for politicians to keep people divided over trivial things such as transgenderism and etc. than to have them focused on much more important matters such as corruption.

User avatar
Leeuwenhoek2
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by Leeuwenhoek2 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm

cjmacie wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:38 am
How would Dhamma Wheelers answer Tucker's questions?
...
And just where is the "Dharmic perspective" in this sort of (typical and incessant) bear-baiting?
I can't attest to the accuracy of the description of "(typical and incessant) bear-baiting". But, as I attempted to indicate in my last post, I would be more happy with a question posed in a more partisan neutral context. That is, minimize the "bear baiting" inducing reaction as much as possible. There is an art and intuition to that.

How to get to more partisan neutral contexts? Holding a multi-partisan / trans-partisan informed understanding and/or enjoying the advise of a ideologically diverse group.
IMO a dharmic perspective values trans-partisan understanding and the wisdom of ideological diversity. The Buddha's own path to enlightenment as well as his mode of teaching indicates this.
For more see: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=31993

--------------
On a related topic. I think class differences predict differences in the outcomes we seek more than race. That is, the goals of anti-racism might be better served by paying attention to class and socio-economic advantage. That idea comes from looking at social science data.
Last edited by Leeuwenhoek2 on Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:36 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm
When racial division is the subtext of everything...
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success.
:goodpost:

Once people realised being perceived as disadvantaged constituted some kind of moral trump card which rendered any opposition ethically unnacceptable.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:56 pm

Bunch of white people saying racism is not an important issue!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Post by Bundokji » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:22 pm

I will attempt to answer the "how did we get here" part of the question.

I think the status quo is an outcome of reaching a plateau in western societies especially in relation to values. Post second world war, social and political progress have been made, and things became in most western nations somehow stable. Even some would argue that western philosophy have stagnated, and science provided a lot of inventions which made life relatively easier and more predictable. However, the lack of meaning is still there.

The above unprecedented luxury might have contributed to the current situation. For instance, when there is a famine, the focus on racial division would make no sense as there will be more urgent threats to deal with.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests