Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 5:43 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:29 am
Greetings No_Mind,
No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:20 am
Only when my physical body is present and my identity is know does the kamma become my own.
Actually, the Dhamma teaches otherwise.

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & mind." (AN 6.63)

Metta,
Paul. :)
That type of bad Kamma via the mind I interpret as imagining making love to a married woman or wishing someone dies so that one is rid of ones woes ..

Taking it as far as a forum is not valid .. I am not present in the forum .. some electrons are.

Such as .. it is impossible to fall in love through forum posts (not forum chat) .. it is also quite impossible to commit bad Kamma through speech in a forum

and even if it is .. I have never called anyone a "pointy eyed dog eater" .. I suggested that would be a nice retort if one is called offensive names by a Chinese.
Bundokji wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:32 am
Don't you think your actions on this forum affect your mind as everywhere else?
Never except in the American Exceptionalism thread which got me really riled up .. that was the only time my actions (and consequent reactions) in this forum affected my mind.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Bundokji
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Bundokji » Tue May 22, 2018 6:13 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:43 am
That type of bad Kamma via the mind I interpret as imagining making love to a married woman or wishing someone dies so that one is rid of ones woes ..

Taking it as far as a forum is not valid .. I am not present in the forum .. some electrons are.

Such as .. it is impossible to fall in love through forum posts (not forum chat) .. it is also quite impossible to commit bad Kamma through speech in a forum

and even if it is .. I have never called anyone a "pointy eyed dog eater" .. I suggested that would be a nice retort if one is called offensive names by a Chinese.
Is not all thinking includes imagination whether online or offline. We might have a heated argument on this forum, and one of us might wish the other harm even if we have never met in real life. You can type a deliberate lie on a forum and i fail to see how the effect is less than anywhere else.

I would go even further, that being aware of our own thoughts and actions on an online forum is more important because we might feel that we can get away with it. I remember one of Ajahn Chah's Dhamma talks where he advised his disciples to develop an inner sense of shame and to reflect on why would they behave differently when they are alone than when they are in a company (this is not how literally expressed it, but how i remember the essence of it).
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 6:36 am

Bundokji wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:13 am
Is not all thinking includes imagination whether online or offline. We might have a heated argument on this forum, and one of us might wish the other harm even if we have never met in real life. You can type a deliberate lie on a forum and i fail to see how the effect is less than anywhere else.
My response would be I have not used my mind to lie or intend harm to another in this forum.

When I said my behaviour IRL is antipodal I meant that I am quiet, polite and would not like to get into any long winded discussion unless I was on the whole sure that the other person and I were more or less on the same page ..

e.g. I am travelling by train .. and three people enter into an argument about right leaning ruling party in India destroying secularism .. I am unlikely to participate except maybe throw in a pithy comment

If and when I travel abroad .. I will be one of the many polite tourists .. too busy sight seeing and searching for bagels to notice any racial slurs against me (I have been told by a million and one people who have travelled abroad .. racism against Indian tourists is non-existent in Europe and USA)

My forum persona is more garrulous because it is anonymous and reasonably untraceable since I am hidden behind carrier grade NAT (every time I log in my IP hopefully changes)

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Grigoris
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:43 am
Taking it as far as a forum is not valid .. I am not present in the forum .. some electrons are.
Now that is deluded.

You know, for a scientist, even "real" life is just the activity of atoms and their electrons.

No my friend, the internet is real life. There are real people sitting on these computers and they are having real interactions. All communications are mediated and the internet is just another medium for interaction and communication.

Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:24 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 6:36 am
When I said my behaviour IRL is antipodal I meant that I am quiet, polite and would not like to get into any long winded discussion unless I was on the whole sure that the other person and I were more or less on the same page ..
... just like at a forum. IOW, your analogy doesn't hold, because a forum is an interest group, not just a random number of people with random interests.
My forum persona is more garrulous because it is anonymous and reasonably untraceable since I am hidden behind carrier grade NAT (every time I log in my IP hopefully changes)
Rather, you are here the way you are because you're part of this particular interest group. :tongue:

- - -
No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:06 am
On a more serious note .. whites here and in other forums have always been perfectly courteous to me. The only person with whom I ever got into a serious race related argument (in another forum) was an African American.
The most offensive, rude, bossy person at this forum that I know is an African American. Thankfully, he doesn't post much.

binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.

binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:29 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:22 am
I think Mana is responsible for all the wars in the world.
Because every person thinks that they are superior to the other.
And what do we do in the face of incontrovertible truths?

SarathW
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by SarathW » Tue May 22, 2018 9:39 am

And what do we do in the face of incontrovertible truths?
We can't do much about it.
Even Buddha could not do much about it.
Only thing what you can do is to realise it yourself first.
Then you teach that to others until your Parinibbana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Grigoris
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am

binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

Justsit
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Justsit » Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
...I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
If there is no difference between internet and real world .. why are people anonymous on the internet (here by internet I mean online forums .. or other anonymous activities like commenting in YT)


:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 3:06 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I would get rid of that "folk idea" and believe forum internet is real world if everyone shares their name, age, height, weight, address, occupation, city and photos/videos ..

At least I have disclosed all above except name .. most here know my height, weight, approx age, occupation and even have seen three photos (assuming they were paying attention over past two years) .. know that I once was an alcoholic .. and gave it up since my girlfriend left me .. and they know I am single and caregiver to my mother

About you all that we know is you are some type of farmer (or have a large garden) .. have learned some kind of psychology or social science course .. and live in Central Europe (I think Slovenia) .. probably you were a member of ISKCON or some Hindu organization (all are probably)

If internet is same as real world .. why don't you and other members share more details?

I will answer it .. because internet is not the real world .. and same rules do not apply.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Tue May 22, 2018 3:44 pm

I'll go first then. I'm a Hispanic thirty year old woman with 2 sisters and one brother, and a cousin as close as a sister in my immediate family. I have two precious nieces and I live in the DC Metro area, I like dogs and have two of them. One named shadow and the other named honey.

Being sincere on the internet is not hard.

As for the topic, I think this thing conversation has shown that there is in fact a need for Ebonyloka. (That black community Dhamma group) because many people here seem to think they have a unique culture and thus have a unique experience when practicing. I've honestly never had this strange issue people mention of being intimidated by black people or had issues with considering them arrogant(?). I have grown up in one of the most racially mixed neighborhood in the DC metro area so my experience is different anyway.

I have experienced odd amounts of racism though from various people throughout the internet though to be honest. (Thankfully not in Dhamma wheel) but it often has played a role elsewhere.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

Garrib
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by Garrib » Tue May 22, 2018 3:49 pm

I don't participate overly much here, but in the spirit of sharing:

I'm Brad
31 y/o male
Washington State, USA
Teacher/Techie (currently looking for work)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradrgarrison111/

I can understand why people seek to remain anonymous, especially when discussing sensitive matters. But I assure you that I, like all others on this and any other forum, are real human beings (excluding the bots) that experience emotions, have dreams, loved ones, lives etc...I will try to keep this in mind in the future and hopefully convey a sense of genuine respect and goodwill in my online communications.

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SDC
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by SDC » Tue May 22, 2018 3:53 pm

Justsit wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
...I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.
When people act terrible on the internet they can avoid most of the immediate consequences they would face in real life: getting screamed at, getting hit, getting filmed or otherwise losing their anonymity, etc., but they don't avoid the result of having those behaviors woven into their character. When a person is repeatedly mean and dishonest and unwholesome, they are slowly becoming all of those things every time the do it. So yeah you can avoid a black eye, keep your anonymity and so forth, but you are literally becoming unwholesomeness - you are thinking it and doing it, and it will get easier each time. That is why nasty internet Buddhists really make me laugh: they are nothing but beasts who use the landscape of Buddhism to act on their lust for greed, hate and delusion. Best is when they try and use the excuse that the Buddha had to sternly reprimand monks once and a while as if it gives them the right to be mean. Laughable.

In regards to race: I think it is important for some people to interact with those they feel comfortable with until such a time (if ever) that they feel comfortable interacting with just anyone. What is important is that it leads a person to the Dhamma. That is all. Any notion that race must be overcome in order to get to the Dhamma is ridiculous. Overcoming one's identity is a result of practice - by no means is it a prerequisite.

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