Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.

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binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:29 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:22 am
I think Mana is responsible for all the wars in the world.
Because every person thinks that they are superior to the other.
And what do we do in the face of incontrovertible truths?

SarathW
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by SarathW » Tue May 22, 2018 9:39 am

And what do we do in the face of incontrovertible truths?
We can't do much about it.
Even Buddha could not do much about it.
Only thing what you can do is to realise it yourself first.
Then you teach that to others until your Parinibbana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Grigoris
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am

binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

Justsit
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Justsit » Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
...I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 2:55 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
If there is no difference between internet and real world .. why are people anonymous on the internet (here by internet I mean online forums .. or other anonymous activities like commenting in YT)


:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 3:06 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:28 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 8:05 am
Would you tell your mother to "f*ck off and die" over the phone, because you are not actually talking to your mother but interacting via electrons? So why is the internet any different? I'll answer the question: it is not any different.
There are folk ideas about karma in some Asian countries, according to which karma is made only when one is in a monastery, for example. IOW, such folk ideas about karma assume that there are times and places where one can do whatever one wants, without any karmic consequences.

The idea that one's (mental, verbal, bodily) actions don't result in kamma when one is in some particular online settings, seems to be such a folk idea about karma as well.
I would get rid of that "folk idea" and believe forum internet is real world if everyone shares their name, age, height, weight, address, occupation, city and photos/videos ..

At least I have disclosed all above except name .. most here know my height, weight, approx age, occupation and even have seen three photos (assuming they were paying attention over past two years) .. know that I once was an alcoholic .. and gave it up since my girlfriend left me .. and they know I am single and caregiver to my mother

About you all that we know is you are some type of farmer (or have a large garden) .. have learned some kind of psychology or social science course .. and live in Central Europe (I think Slovenia) .. probably you were a member of ISKCON or some Hindu organization (all are probably)

If internet is same as real world .. why don't you and other members share more details?

I will answer it .. because internet is not the real world .. and same rules do not apply.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Tue May 22, 2018 3:44 pm

I'll go first then. I'm a Hispanic thirty year old woman with 2 sisters and one brother, and a cousin as close as a sister in my immediate family. I have two precious nieces and I live in the DC Metro area, I like dogs and have two of them. One named shadow and the other named honey.

Being sincere on the internet is not hard.

As for the topic, I think this thing conversation has shown that there is in fact a need for Ebonyloka. (That black community Dhamma group) because many people here seem to think they have a unique culture and thus have a unique experience when practicing. I've honestly never had this strange issue people mention of being intimidated by black people or had issues with considering them arrogant(?). I have grown up in one of the most racially mixed neighborhood in the DC metro area so my experience is different anyway.

I have experienced odd amounts of racism though from various people throughout the internet though to be honest. (Thankfully not in Dhamma wheel) but it often has played a role elsewhere.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

Garrib
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Re: Musings on Race (Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?)

Post by Garrib » Tue May 22, 2018 3:49 pm

I don't participate overly much here, but in the spirit of sharing:

I'm Brad
31 y/o male
Washington State, USA
Teacher/Techie (currently looking for work)

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradrgarrison111/

I can understand why people seek to remain anonymous, especially when discussing sensitive matters. But I assure you that I, like all others on this and any other forum, are real human beings (excluding the bots) that experience emotions, have dreams, loved ones, lives etc...I will try to keep this in mind in the future and hopefully convey a sense of genuine respect and goodwill in my online communications.

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SDC
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by SDC » Tue May 22, 2018 3:53 pm

Justsit wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 11:35 am
...I think that in general people seem to believe that there is the internet and then there is the "real world". It is why people feel they can act like complete and utter todgers when online without considering how this translates into the way they act/react in meat space.
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.
When people act terrible on the internet they can avoid most of the immediate consequences they would face in real life: getting screamed at, getting hit, getting filmed or otherwise losing their anonymity, etc., but they don't avoid the result of having those behaviors woven into their character. When a person is repeatedly mean and dishonest and unwholesome, they are slowly becoming all of those things every time the do it. So yeah you can avoid a black eye, keep your anonymity and so forth, but you are literally becoming unwholesomeness - you are thinking it and doing it, and it will get easier each time. That is why nasty internet Buddhists really make me laugh: they are nothing but beasts who use the landscape of Buddhism to act on their lust for greed, hate and delusion. Best is when they try and use the excuse that the Buddha had to sternly reprimand monks once and a while as if it gives them the right to be mean. Laughable.

In regards to race: I think it is important for some people to interact with those they feel comfortable with until such a time (if ever) that they feel comfortable interacting with just anyone. What is important is that it leads a person to the Dhamma. That is all. Any notion that race must be overcome in order to get to the Dhamma is ridiculous. Overcoming one's identity is a result of practice - by no means is it a prerequisite.

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Grigoris
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 22, 2018 3:59 pm

Justsit wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.
I disagree. They are habituating themselves to certain patterns of behaviour. This has a direct impact on their mind stream. That IS reality.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:59 pm
Justsit wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.
I disagree. They are habituating themselves to certain patterns of behaviour. This has a direct impact on their mind stream. That IS reality.
I think I agree with both of you. The consequences of one's actions in the virtual world are certainly different (no immediate threat of violence; one can hide aspects of one's personality that are visible in face-to-face interactions; one can simply log off, or assume multiple identities) but they are equally real. One can cultivate one's greed, hatred, and delusions just as effectively on the internet as anywhere else. Often better. Real people are seldom as sexually compliant as porn stars, or as deluded as that nazi/commie/redneck/pervert who you love to hate on line. Kamma works differently in different settings, but it never stops working.

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No_Mind
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 4:33 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm
I think I agree with both of you. The consequences of one's actions in the virtual world are certainly different (no immediate threat of violence; one can hide aspects of one's personality that are visible in face-to-face interactions; one can simply log off, or assume multiple identities) but they are equally real. One can cultivate one's greed, hatred, and delusions just as effectively on the internet as anywhere else. Often better. Real people are seldom as sexually compliant as porn stars, or as deluded as that nazi/commie/redneck/pervert who you love to hate on line. Kamma works differently in different settings, but it never stops working.
So if I shoot someone in a video game (someone with an user_id) .. I have broken the first precept?

Note - I am not asking about effect of video games on youth and their tendency towards violence .. just a simple Yes/No ..is shooting someone dead while playing Call of Duty breaking the first precept as you suggested?

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Grigoris
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 22, 2018 4:42 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 4:33 pm
So if I shoot someone in a video game (someone with an user_id) .. I have broken the first precept?

Note - I am not asking about effect of video games on youth and their tendency towards violence .. just a simple Yes/No ..is shooting someone dead while playing Call of Duty breaking the first precept as you suggested?

:namaste:
They suggested nothing of the sort. You are engaging in straw man logical fallacies.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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binocular
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Re: Any other Black people on Dhammawheel?

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 5:57 pm

Justsit wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 pm
The difference being, in the "real world" there are repercussions for one's behavior that accrue to oneself. In the virtual world, a poster can spew vitriol with impunity and get away with it. IMO this allows people - those who are passive-aggressive in particular - to indulge their negative emotions without "real life" consequences.
I disagree.
For one, there is a whole political spectrum that spews vitriol left and right, up and down wherever they go, online or face to face, and they get away with it.
For two, I've never been told mean things on the internet that I wasn't told face to face; and face to face people said worse things to me than online.

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