Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

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paul
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Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by paul » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:29 pm

The Theravada view, the connection between personal nature and big N nature:

Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi
Buddhist scholar-monk, Chuang Yen Monastery, Carmel

“Unlike the religions of the West, Buddhism is nontheistic. It does not accept the existence of a creator God who governs the universe according to his will. The Buddha taught that the universe is without a first point in time. Without beginning, world systems have been emerging, evolving and then perishing, as new world systems arise to replace them. Any world system contains multiple planes of existence. Ranged above our human plane, there are numerous heavenly realms, inhabited by celestial beings, and below there are various hells, realms of intense suffering. Life in all realms, the Buddha teaches, is transient. Beings are reborn into any realm in accordance with their volitional actions, their karma, and when the karmic force that brought them there is exhausted, they pass away and take rebirth elsewhere. The world in which our lives unfold, what we might call “nature,” is therefore a reflection of our past karma. We live on the earth — a world with forests, seas, mountains and plains — because our karma brought us here. The beings in the heavens experience another kind of world, more blissful than ours, which for them is nature, because their karma brought them a heavenly rebirth. And the beings in hell dwell in a world of torment — their nature — because their karma brought them an infernal rebirth. Thus Buddhism sees in nature, in the world where we live, the reflection of our own past actions, a domain in which we act once again for good or for bad and forge our destiny in future lives.”
https://www.newsday.com/long-island/li- ... 1.18171278

"Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."---AN 4.45

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Sam Vara
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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:42 pm

Many thanks, Paul. I think that's very fine and clear writing from Bhikkhu Bodhi.

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mikenz66
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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:59 pm

Hi Paul,

I'm not sure exactly what your point is here:
paul wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:29 pm
"Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."---AN 4.45
Are you suggesting that the loca (world/cosmos) of sense experience, which is what seems to be referred to in that sutta (https://suttacentral.net/an4.45) is the only way the word is used in the suttas?

See these various discussions:
viewtopic.php?t=20698
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13611

In any case, even for the world of sense experience (https://suttacentral.net/sn12.44/), it seems to me that Bhikkhu Bodhi's comments would still apply:
Bodhi wrote:The world in which our lives unfold, what we might call “nature,” is therefore a reflection of our past karma.
:heart:
Mike

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DooDoot
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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:26 am

paul wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:29 pm
Unlike the religions of the West, Buddhism is nontheistic. It does not accept the existence of a creator God who governs the universe according to his will.... Beings are reborn into any realm in accordance with their volitional actions, their karma, and when the karmic force that brought them there is exhausted, they pass away and take rebirth elsewhere. The world in which our lives unfold, what we might call “nature,” is therefore a reflection of our past karma.
Personally, I struggle to see the difference between the theistic view VBB rejects and the volitional karma view VBB asserts. Both views appear to share the view that "nature" is somehow created by will or volition.
paul wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:29 pm
"Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos."---AN 4.45
To me, the above sutta quote from Thanissaro is unrelated what VBB wrote because AN 4.45 appears to be about the "mental worlds" created & extinguished via perception & thought. Also, "cosmos" appears to be a terrible translation. For example, can the translation "cosmos" be used in the following passage:
“Well sir, what is that reasonable path for realizing a world of perfect happiness?”

“Katamā pana sā, bhante, ākāravatī paṭipadā ekantasukhassa lokassa sacchikiriyāyā”ti?

“It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption.

“Idhudāyi, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi … pe … paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati;

https://suttacentral.net/mn79/en/sujato
Similarly:
And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging. From clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.

SN 12.44
Notice how Thanissaro does not use the translation of "cosmos" below:
There is no this world, no next [other] world...

MN 117
Or below:
Monks, these eight worldly conditions spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions. Which eight? Gain, loss, status, disgrace, censure, praise, pleasure, & pain. These are the eight worldly conditions that spin after the world, and the world spins after these eight worldly conditions.

AN 8.6

James Tan
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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by James Tan » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:49 am

God created everything and in controls of it .

Whereas sentient beings simply live according to their Habits and are Bound to Act within certain Restricted conditions ie kamma whereby produces a kind of Returning Force in which affecting them and each other now and later .
:reading:

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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by James Tan » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:16 am

A god is a powerful entity that has supernatural powers that ordinary people not able to perform . God created the universe . Does human being has the ability to create something like that ?
:reading:

paul
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Re: Bikkhu Bodhi on nature as the support on this plane:

Post by paul » Wed May 23, 2018 7:30 am

Since due to kamma result nature can be considered an extension of the body, the natural environment being the support for the body on the human plane, it too should be protected by legal rights:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ent-amazon

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