Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

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DooDoot
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by DooDoot » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:20 pm
Is there a reason somebody just didn't assassinate or targeted-strike President Assad? I guess maybe his movements are secret...
Like they did in Libya?



Like this?



To this benevolent dictator?


Circle5
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Circle5 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:15 pm

Lol. Funny stuff from 2 hours ago. Former head of UK armed forces got cut off on TV after going off script on Syria:

https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar ... s_cut_off/

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No_Mind
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by No_Mind » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:26 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:33 pm
Why is no topic here about the important events that are about to happen regarding Syria ? I sometimes come here to check the news. I think "if something super important is happening, it must be there in the dw news section". But since this news is not here, maybe I shouldn't rely on DW to get the news in the future.

So long story short: USA wants to strike Syria for an alleged chemical attack. This time, Russia has said that it will respond strongly to such an act and ever since Trump tweet 2 days ago, Russian and Assad planes have been patrolling the coast.

What can happen:

1) Worst case scenario: USA stricks Syria. Russia downs the US ship that launched the missilles. USA crushes Russian navy present in the area that is weaker than USA navy in the area. Russia might then respond with bombing of USA troops west of euphrate. After that, probably a US emergency meeting will be summoned and things will calm down.

2) Trump backs down and decides not to strike and things return to normal.

3) Middle ground solution: USA strikes Syria, Russia strikes the USA ship that lounched those missiles, UN emergency summit is summoned

There are 24 hours left until the decision will be made.

Personal prediction: USA finds a way to back down and not strike Syria while not looking like losers. Even China said they should do this and it's the first time they comment on Syrian war. They might call some independent commision to investigate the attack and slowly get out of this situation without losing face. Though there is a significant chance they will just do the attack and hope others don't react, but that's highly problematic since it has been made crystal clear that the US ship will be sunk if they do the attack.
You wrote this post on Apr 11 3:03 AM (my local time)

Now it is Apr 13 10:51 PM

More than 67 hours have gone by and nothing has happened.

Nothing will. At most few Tomahawks will hit some targets in Syria. That's all.

Neither US nor Russia will go to war over a conflict in Syria. Stop imagining things after being awake all night. You wrote this at your local time 12:30 PM!! See what happens if you stay awake? Go to sleep at 9 PM today

:namaste:
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Circle5
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Circle5 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:52 pm

My own prediction was that nothing will happen. And indeed, it seems that despite the strange tweets from Trump, nothing has happened and the situation appears to have calmed down.

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Grigoris
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 pm

On average 100,000 people have been killed in Syria per year since the war started in 2011, I would hardly call that "nothing happening".
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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Grigoris
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:51 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:39 pm
Like they did in Libya?
And we've seen how that worked out. Just like in Iraq too. Another glorious victory for democracy. :roll:
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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DooDoot
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by DooDoot » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:59 pm

grigoris wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:51 pm
Another glorious victory for democracy. :roll:


:anjali: :heart:

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DooDoot
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by DooDoot » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:19 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 am
ISIS who have been virtually obliterated by Mad Dog Maddis & co.
The Syrian people, Lebanese Hezbollah & Russians sacrificed their lives, having to enter in a hell not of their own creation, to obliterate ISIS. :|
retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 am
( And some people still believe he is stupid! :rofl: The cognitive dissonance must hurt. )
So the man in this video @ 14:37 to 15:08 has cognitive dissonance in his condemnation of anyone that takes Trump (a liar) seriously.
Even so, Rāhula, of anyone for whom there is no shame at intentional lying, of him I say that there is no evil he cannot do. Wherefore, for you, Rāhula, ‘I will not speak a lie, even for fun’, this is how you must train yourself, Rāhula.

MN 61 - Lord Buddha

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:38 am
Given his actual track record, I think we're all blessed that he is at the helm, rather than the alternative - a proven war-monger like Hillary Clinton.
Residential area burning in Damascus. #TRUMP is murdering the people of Damascus, the oldest inhabited city in the world to save AlQaeda.
If a bhikkhu should wish: ‘May I contact with the body and abide in those liberations that are peaceful and immaterial, transcending forms,’ let him fulfil the precepts… MN 6

He abides in non-killing... non-lying... and speaks in praise of non-killing... non-lying... SN 55.7
:hello:


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No_Mind
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:28 am

grigoris wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 pm
On average 100,000 people have been killed in Syria per year since the war started in 2011, I would hardly call that "nothing happening".
Why does it matter to the rest of the world if people die in a civil war (as long as the civil war can be contained inside borders of that country)

100,000 a year is quite small number of casualties in absolute terms. Total deaths in WW I was 41 million and in WW II 75 million (military and civilian; Allied and Axis combined)

The figure is probably incorrect since Syrian opposition puts it at 470,000 or 67,000 per year. As we know the opposition would be putting out inflated numbers. Let us say 45,000 a year is the correct number (we Asians can haggle over anything .. from price of fish to number of deaths :smile:)

And this is not the number that Assad killed .. it is a many cornered battle - Assad, ISIS and others who include Iraq, Kurds, Syrian rebels.

On July 1, 2016 the number of British soldiers who died on the first day of Battle of Somme was 19,240 .. probably the bloodiest single day in modern war

None of us in rest of the world are responsible for it .. why should we be wringing our hands (or rather you be wringing your hands) ..

The idea that "civilised nations" should prevent "uncivilised nations" from bickering among themselves is a dated notion that has brought untold misery to this world .. from British colonisation of India to US intervention in Iraq. The white race has a moral responsibility to preserve peace and see that democracy prevails in every corner of this world .. white man's burden theory .. is exploitative (not to mention anachronistic.) Let citizens in every country figure out their own salvation.

I am feeling more sad about a tiger that was killed yesterday by villagers about 180 kms from my home. It had presumably strayed away from Sunderbans tiger reserve and travelled 300 kms west to its new hunting grounds (how it did that without being seen .. no one can understand) .. many unsuccessful attempts were made to capture it using live bait and cage .. but at end it was killed by villagers whose livestock it was feeding off for two months.

A picture of the animal taken with remote cameras a month ago .. magnificent specimen

Image

:candle: :candle:

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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:35 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:06 pm

The "opposition" are a coalition of radicals & mercenaries from over 30 nations. There is no civil war and no rebels. Just an orchestrated regime change agenda that has so far failed & cost lots of money. The Syrian govt has been unbelievably civil, trying to minimize war. 95% of East Ghouta was liberated. It is ridiculous the Syrian govt would use chemicals. It was obviously the "rebels'; who probably killed captives.
Stick to quoting suttas, Doo Doot. You are starting to sound ridiculous. You believe everything you read that appeals to your interests. I can see you know almost nothing about the middle east and its cultures.

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Grigoris
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Grigoris » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:42 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:28 am
Why does it matter to the rest of the world if people die in a civil war (as long as the civil war can be contained inside borders of that country)
Basic human compassion for other human beings? Because it is not being contained inside the borders of the country? Because it is a proxy war for various super powers and may spill over into a global war? Because it is effecting all the surrounding countries? Because most of those being killed are innocents?
100,000 a year is quite small number of casualties in absolute terms. Total deaths in WW I was 41 million and in WW II 75 million (military and civilian; Allied and Axis combined)
Oh, that makes it okay then. Phew, for a second there I was actually concerned about human suffering but now you have allayed that feeling.
None of us in rest of the world are responsible for it .. why should we be wringing our hands (or rather you be wringing your hands).
The amount of purposeful ignorance in this statement makes it useless and unnecessary for me to answer.
I am feeling more sad about a tiger that was killed yesterday by villagers about 180 kms from my home.
Personally, I feel sad about both situations.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:45 am

Greetings,

My take is that the previously stated "red line" about the use of chemical weapons was crossed, and that a series of missiles were used to disrupt the infrastructure used for the storage and creation of such weaponry. Russia were warned of the strike in advance so they could clear out, without accidentally instigating serious military conflict between the U.S. and Russia.

Unlike past US administrations, there is no drive for occupation, or regime change or anything along those lines. My understanding of Trump's long-term policy is that he intends to allow Saudi Arabia to monitor and de-escalate conflicts in the Middle East. The U.S. will monitor and de-escalate conflicts in the Pacific. This Syrian strike is over and above, yet separate to, that general long-term principle that he's working towards.

To anyone saying nothing should have been done, or that it's "interference" or whatever, I wonder if they would say nothing should have been done when the Nazis where using chemicals to gas the Jews?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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No_Mind
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 am

grigoris wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:42 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:28 am
Why does it matter to the rest of the world if people die in a civil war (as long as the civil war can be contained inside borders of that country)
Basic human compassion for other human beings? Because it is not being contained inside the borders of the country? Because it is a proxy war for various super powers and may spill over into a global war? Because it is effecting all the surrounding countries? Because most of those being killed are innocents?
100,000 a year is quite small number of casualties in absolute terms. Total deaths in WW I was 41 million and in WW II 75 million (military and civilian; Allied and Axis combined)
Oh, that makes it okay then. Phew, for a second there I was actually concerned about human suffering but now you have allayed that feeling.
Thank God you were not around in 1939 .. you would have worn your hand to a nub from all the wringing .. making me as a fellow Nibbana seeker worried and sad. In a few years Saudi Arabia will follow. Go wring your hand out of compassion for them. Keep on wringing.

At 100,000 a year not much scope for large scale wringing :smile:

And what do you suggest as a remedy to the civil war .. we carpet bomb them with Dhammapadas?

Basically what I am saying is they need to get it out of their system (like Europe did between 1914 and 1945).
retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:45 am
To anyone saying nothing should have been done, or that it's "interference" or whatever, I wonder if they would say nothing should have been done when the Nazis where using chemicals to gas the Jews?

Metta,
Paul. :)
If I am the "anyone" ..

In WW II Europeans interfered with Europeans .. then another white race (Americans) stepped in .. nothing wrong in that ..

Intervention by one race into affairs of another race is dangerous since to begin with this entire problem from Israel to Iraq to Syria is happening due to two white men, Mr Sykes and Mr Picquot. A man called Mr Radcliffe did the same in the subcontinent due to which two nations are perpetually at war for over 70 years.

Let Saudis and Iranians and Iraqis and Jordanians sort this mess out

There was white man's blunder in Iraq. It misfired. Iraqis did not want to be liberated by white men. Do not make the same error again.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grigoris
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by Grigoris » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:33 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:11 am
Thank God you were not around in 1939 .. you would have worn your hand to a nub from all the wringing .. making me as a fellow Nibbana seeker worried and sad. In a few years Saudi Arabia will follow. Go wring your hand out of compassion for them. Keep on wringing.

At 100,000 a year not much scope for large scale wringing :smile:

And what do you suggest as a remedy to the civil war .. we carpet bomb them with Dhammapadas?

Basically what I am saying is they need to get it out of their system (like Europe did between 1914 and 1945).

:namaste:
I don't wring my hands. I live on the island of Lesbos. It is the first major European entry point for the majority of the refugees fleeing the war in Syria. I work as a clinical psychologist for a medical organisation. I deal on a daily basis with victims of war, torture and rape. The majority of my patients suffer from psychosis as a consequence of their experiences. If you do not think that I am justifiably concerned about the situation in Syria and it's effect on not only Syrians, but on the members of the community I live in too, then feel free to continue wringing whatever it is you are busily wringing...

And since this is a Buddhist forum: Where exactly did the Buddha teach that people have to get "it (whatever that "it" is) out of their system" in order to avoid suffering?

As a matter of fact all of the Buddha's teachings on violence are a denunciation of it.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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No_Mind
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Re: Next 24 hours are super important (huge tensions regarding Syria)

Post by No_Mind » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:38 am

grigoris wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:33 am

And since this is a Buddhist forum: Where exactly did the Buddha teach that people have to get "it (whatever that "it" is) out of their system" in order to avoid suffering?

As a matter of fact all of the Buddha's teachings on violence are a denunciation of it.
Buddha was concerned if you are being violent. You are not .. then why suffer due to other people suffering? Suffering will never stop .. it is upto you to achieve your own Nibbana

Let us say when Buddha was teaching in Mahajanapada X a war broke out between Mahajanapada Y and Mahajanapada Z (had to have really happened .. at some point)

Would he have asked his students to stop meditating and get all agitated? No. That was not his teaching. His teaching was to do metta for them but walk your own path.

Mad men will do what mad men do. Why bother yourself?

Include all those who are suffering in Syria in your daily metta practice.

Do not conflate post-modern western ideas with Buddhism ..

If you cannot accept the built in selfishness of Buddhism you are practising the wrong religion.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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