Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:41 am

Even 9-12 month old white babies slightly outscore black babies and by the time children are out of the kindergarten there are significant differences.

Imho saying that this is all enviroment is an insult to all black individuals who are in the top perceptiles as well as white high iq children who come from a shitty enviroment.

Saying that black people would be superior at analyzing ebonics or rap lyrics is not a natural assumption at all.
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 am
if the IQ tests were designed and written by black people, I'm sure blacks would test higher.
Yet somehow asians outperform whites on white-made IQ tests.

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:35 am

Those are Asians in America that test higher, again a select group of higher motivation individuals with more money to move to USA etc
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 am

This thread needs some graphs just to make it into a proper racial IQ debate imo :popcorn: ;
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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:46 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:35 am
Those are Asians in America that test higher, again a select group of higher motivation individuals with more money to move to USA etc
Nah National Averages do not support your your claim.
Image
i am gonna leave this thread anyway, as i see it there is nothing to debate. Enviroment vs inheritance can not be settled due to overlap and incomplete data as far as biology goes, also karmic factors are ignored by science. It is what it is imo.

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:21 am

What's disgusting is that anyone would take this kind of rubbish seriously.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by Circle5 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:47 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:10 am
if the IQ tests were designed and written by black people, I'm sure blacks would test higher.
But jews and asians have higher scores than caucasians.
Of course... it's "skilled migration".
Exactly, plus some vetting is going on in the case of USA. But even without vetting, people with higher IQ tend to move out. This is particularly true in eastern europe due to wages being very equal as a legacy of communism. Doctors, teachers, etc. get very little over minimum wage (that is already super small). Romania has the lowest IQ in europe and other eastern european countries also have small average IQs despite the population being 97-100% white.
Those are Asians in America that test higher, again a select group of higher motivation individuals with more money to move to USA etc
Nope, that 106 average IQ of east asians is about asians living in Asia.
i am gonna leave this thread anyway, as i see it there is nothing to debate. Enviroment vs inheritance can not be settled due to overlap and incomplete data as far as biology goes, also karmic factors are ignored by science. It is what it is imo.
True, but there is actually some data on this due to studies done on twins. Though I can't remember the exact numbers. From what I remember the IQs are pretty much set in stone by genetics after age 3 or something like that. Whatever enviromental influences the parents can bring, they have to bring them when the kid is very little.

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by santa100 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm

that 106 average IQ of east asians is about asians living in Asia
But then this leads back to the original inquiry in my previous post: is the high IQ "born" or "made"? Bottomline is it's difficult to separate out nature from nurture. The high score by itself doesn't give any useful info. unless the researchers take a closer look into the environments that conditioned this score. Ever wonder why your shy Asian classmate back in high school days who seemed to have pretty comparable intelligence as yours and yet, always outscored you in all the aptitude tests? Ever heard of the term "Tiger Mom" and the concept of "Brain Plasticity"?

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by Circle5 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 pm

santa100 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm
that 106 average IQ of east asians is about asians living in Asia
But then this leads back to the original inquiry in my previous post: is the high IQ "born" or "made"? Bottomline is it's difficult to separate out nature from nurture. The high score by itself doesn't give any useful info. unless the researchers take a closer look into the environments that conditioned this score. Ever wonder why your shy Asian classmate back in high school days who seemed to have pretty comparable intelligence as yours and yet, always outscored you in all the aptitude tests? Ever heard of the term "Tiger Mom" and the concept of "Brain Plasticity"?
"Tiger mom" concept and brain plasticity fall into the category of "other factors besides IQ" in predicting success. They have no influence on IQ because IQ can not be influenced by the environment pass age 3. (hope I'm not mistaken, because I've researched the problem 1-2 years ago)

There have been many studies trying to find out how much % of IQ is dependent on genetics and how much is dependent on environment. Best of such studies are those done on twins. This is a difficult thing to measure, but some good studies regarding this have indeed been made.

It is also important to remember that "enviromental factors that influence IQ" refers to things such as malnutrition and not too much except that. Things such as "tiger mom" or "going to a good school" or etc. do not have any impact on IQ. They do have a big impact on predicting success, but not on changing IQ. To use a simile, that's like putting good information and installing helpful programs on a computer, but it's not changing the processing power of that computer.

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Total nonsense, IQ tests are culture dependent and favour the race and class of the people that made the IQ test, being a good farmer requires high IQ, but that doesn't mean someone raised in a farming community in the third world is going to score high on a test designed and administered by city dwelling white folk.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by No_Mind » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:16 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 pm
santa100 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm
that 106 average IQ of east asians is about asians living in Asia
But then this leads back to the original inquiry in my previous post: is the high IQ "born" or "made"? Bottomline is it's difficult to separate out nature from nurture. The high score by itself doesn't give any useful info. unless the researchers take a closer look into the environments that conditioned this score. Ever wonder why your shy Asian classmate back in high school days who seemed to have pretty comparable intelligence as yours and yet, always outscored you in all the aptitude tests? Ever heard of the term "Tiger Mom" and the concept of "Brain Plasticity"?
"Tiger mom" concept and brain plasticity fall into the category of "other factors besides IQ" in predicting success. They have no influence on IQ because IQ can not be influenced by the environment pass age 3. (hope I'm not mistaken, because I've researched the problem 1-2 years ago)

There have been many studies trying to find out how much % of IQ is dependent on genetics and how much is dependent on environment. Best of such studies are those done on twins. This is a difficult thing to measure, but some good studies regarding this have indeed been made.

It is also important to remember that "enviromental factors that influence IQ" refers to things such as malnutrition and not too much except that. Things such as "tiger mom" or "going to a good school" or etc. do not have any impact on IQ. They do have a big impact on predicting success, but not on changing IQ. To use a simile, that's like putting good information and installing helpful programs on a computer, but it's not changing the processing power of that computer.
IQ is not static but can be trained

New Evidence That IQ Can Be Increased With Brain Training

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by No_Mind » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:40 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm
Total nonsense, IQ tests are culture dependent and favour the race and class of the people that made the IQ test, being a good farmer requires high IQ, but that doesn't mean someone raised in a farming community in the third world is going to score high on a test designed and administered by city dwelling white folk.
Actually Lyndon ... IQ tests depend on signs and not numbers .. you could substitute $ with a banana and & with an apple if you wish .. I am not that artistic .. no reason why a farmer or historian should not be able to solve this type of problem

$ + $ = 18

$ × & + & = 100

# + $ + $ + & = & + & + & + &

what is value of #

Anybody? .. Something really simple here ..

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Last edited by No_Mind on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chownah
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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by chownah » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:57 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:40 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:15 pm
Total nonsense, IQ tests are culture dependent and favour the race and class of the people that made the IQ test, being a good farmer requires high IQ, but that doesn't mean someone raised in a farming community in the third world is going to score high on a test designed and administered by city dwelling white folk.
Actually Lyndon ... IQ tests depend on signs and not numbers .. you could substitute $ with a banana and & with an apple if you wish .. I am not that artistic .. no reason why a farmer or historian should not be able to solve this type of problem

$ + $ = 18

$ * & + & = 100 (note * means multiplication)

# + $ + $ + & = & + & + & + &

what is value of #

Anybody? .. Something really simple here ..

:namaste:
12 This is a question base on mathematical notion and exposure/familiarity/understanding of mathematical notation is a cultural variable so you have in fact shown that this sort of test is culturally dependent....you have proven lyndon taylor's point.
chownah

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by Mr Man » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:57 pm

22 edit or 12 maybe 😄

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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by No_Mind » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:06 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:57 pm
12 This is a question base on mathematical notion and exposure/familiarity/understanding of mathematical notation is a cultural variable so you have in fact shown that this sort of test is culturally dependent....you have proven lyndon taylor's point.
chownah
If drawn it will look sort of like this .. yes little bit of math but if you see this one is more logic and observation power than math at end

Image

No contest for this one. It is from internet so answer is easily accessible.

And most other IQ questions have nothing to do with math .. no reason why a ballet dancer or bus driver would not be able to solve it .. has nothing to do with city folk (this part @ Lyndon)

Finger : Hand

which one is most suitable comparison

A) Chair : Table

B) Truck : Car

C ) Eye : Ear

D ) Blade : Razor


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Last edited by No_Mind on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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santa100
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Re: Race, IQ and Idenity politics: A debate.

Post by santa100 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:18 pm

Circle5 wrote:There have been many studies trying to find out how much % of IQ is dependent on genetics and how much is dependent on environment. Best of such studies are those done on twins. This is a difficult thing to measure, but some good studies regarding this have indeed been made.

... Things such as "tiger mom" or "going to a good school" or etc. do not have any impact on IQ.
Well, then let's wait til we can see any concrete scientific evidence that cleanly segregate out nature vs nurture before jumping to your conclusion above.

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