Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:13 am

thx it's ok
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

binocular
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by binocular » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 am

SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:22 pm
Well, then I can understand not praising, but can't understand the critiquing. If you aren't sure then why be so harsh?
The Establishment expects us to submit to it, in this particular case, that means submitting to the popular positive opinion about S. Hawking. Some people, like the OP, Angry Young Men, oppose this.

So I think this OP has only nominally to do with S. Hawking, but everything to do with opposition to the Establishment. Our resident AYM just haven't come to the point of being ... let's call that ... more subversive or sophisticated in their opposition.

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SDC
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by SDC » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:38 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 am
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:22 pm
Well, then I can understand not praising, but can't understand the critiquing. If you aren't sure then why be so harsh?
The Establishment expects us to submit to it, in this particular case, that means submitting to the popular positive opinion about S. Hawking. Some people, like the OP, Angry Young Men, oppose this.

So I think this OP has only nominally to do with S. Hawking, but everything to do with opposition to the Establishment. Our resident AYM just haven't come to the point of being ... let's call that ... more subversive or sophisticated in their opposition.
My favorite letter.

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:25 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:11 am
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:03 am
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:01 am


.. when we are going to criticize others the academic credentials are important.
this is foolish & reprehensible
I know this is late but I did not mean to personally insult you at start of the conversation. I did however do so. For that I apologize.

But you also have to realize he was very dear to many of us and by criticizing him or calling him not great you are reaching us a lot of pain.

:namaste:
Reading though this thread really cause suffering. One of the best men of world passed by.

I mourn him with great respect in tears.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm

dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:36 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:26 pm
dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:14 pm
But Stephen Hawking did not do this.
He did admit to being a "theoretical" physicist. I'm just saying.
To me that just says he was more keen on philosophy than science which is even more concerning.
Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:15 pm

This thread is deader than dead. Again :
."Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You do't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards'; 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'

"Why should you not do this? Such talk, monks, is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or to Nibbana. When you have discussions, monks, you should discuss Suffering, the Arising of Suffering, its Cessation, and the Path that leads to its Cessation. Why is that? Because such talk is related to the goal... it conduces to disenchantment... to Nibbana. This is the task you must accomplish."
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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zerotime
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by zerotime » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:27 pm

dylanj wrote: for example he says that this is the only universe, there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang.
really? :shock:
it sounds really bizarre. How something can arise from a nothingness?

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oncereturner
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:01 pm

zerotime wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:27 pm
dylanj wrote: for example he says that this is the only universe, there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang.
really? :shock:
it sounds really bizarre. How something can arise from a nothingness?
This is really interesting. I'm curious about this topic. There are some theory about the big bang. There was a strange thing, it was no nothingness, it was smaller than an atom, but contained huge amount of matter and anti-matter. Then this thing blew up, and universe was born. The two matters, mentioned before started to eliminate each other. We are fortunate it was more particle than antiparticle. It's obvious to me that arrow of time started at big bang (in our universe).

We know almost everything about the universe, but we still don't know what was before. I believe in multiverse, I can't imagine this is the only one universe. We thought we have one planet, then we became aware that there are other planets and galaxies. Next step will be discovering other universes.

There's no way we can see other universes, we can see only ours. But tendency shows, I guess in theory, we must be narrow minded all the time, only me, only me... So I think other universes exist maybe in the million.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:41 pm

He is an expert of arrow of time and astronomy.

"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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dylanj
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:43 pm

zerotime wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:27 pm
dylanj wrote: for example he says that this is the only universe, there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang.
really? :shock:
it sounds really bizarre. How something can arise from a nothingness?
*shrug* i don't know, it's funny because he uses this to dismiss god but it seems like the same logical contradictions are there
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm
dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:36 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:26 pm


He did admit to being a "theoretical" physicist. I'm just saying.
To me that just says he was more keen on philosophy than science which is even more concerning.
Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:01 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 am
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:22 pm
Well, then I can understand not praising, but can't understand the critiquing. If you aren't sure then why be so harsh?
The Establishment expects us to submit to it, in this particular case, that means submitting to the popular positive opinion about S. Hawking. Some people, like the OP, Angry Young Men, oppose this.

So I think this OP has only nominally to do with S. Hawking, but everything to do with opposition to the Establishment. Our resident AYM just haven't come to the point of being ... let's call that ... more subversive or sophisticated in their opposition.
rude & petty & vain

fwiw I am not the OP this thread was split. i just made one small comment initially & only said so much more because i was dogpiled
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:09 am

"Bhikkhus, whatever kinds of worldly merit there are, all are not worth one sixteenth part of the heart-deliverance of universal love; in shining and beaming and radiance the heart-deliverance of universal love far excels them."
- Iti 27
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm
dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:36 pm


To me that just says he was more keen on philosophy than science which is even more concerning.
Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:51 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm
Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
His legendary intelligence is well known, IMO great minds open the opportunity for the rest of us, to understand Buddha's holy way better. E.g black holes destroy matter, this is the ultimate end of samsara.

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:51 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm
Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
His legendary intelligence is well known, IMO great minds open the opportunity for the rest of us, to understand Buddha's holy way better. E.g black holes destroy matter, this is the ultimate end of samsara.

:anjali:
the buddha didn't teach any ultimate end of samsara though

i think there's room for quantum physics to be compared to buddhism (pm for book on this) but it's too easy to draw flawed/false conclusions with stuff like black holes, & i've thought about the concept a whole lot so i understand the urge
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm


Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
it's ok thx
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:16 pm

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm


why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
it's ok thx
Thank you too. Some of us may reborn in hell, others in samsara (like me). All life on earth will be wiped out in 600 million years, due to solar instability. After this, the sun will destroy this planet. And this is not the most disturbing, Andromeda galaxy will collide with milky way, everything will be torn apart. The cold space turn into fire like hell,as particles collide and release energy. At the end, nothing remains, only huge black holes. At this point, our universe is dead. Maybe in other universes, life still flourish and samsara exist forever. :)

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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mikenz66
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm
i think there's room for quantum physics to be compared to buddhism (pm for book on this) but it's too easy to draw flawed/false conclusions with stuff like black holes, & i've thought about the concept a whole lot so i understand the urge
Yes, most of what I've seen attempting to connect physics and Dhamma (or Eastern thought in general) was very superficial, since in most cases the author know little about dhamma, or little about physics, or little about either.

I personally recommend Alan Wallace's Choosing Reality http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/buddhis ... ality.aspx
Wallace actually has a degree in physics (though not an advanced degree), as well as his Tibetan Buddhism credentials.

I like Wallace's approach, which is to draw parallels between approaches, rather than details. Wheras, trying to compare, for example, "Dark Energy" with some Dhamma idea seems pointless to me. Cutting-edge physics theories are ephemeral, and are likely to turn out to be erronious - that's the nature of cutting edge science! I recall reading, The Tao of Physics back in the late 70s. The book made a big deal out of a particular particle-physics theory, which, by the time I read the book, had fallen out of favour. Capra discusses this on his web site: http://www.fritjofcapra.net/the-unification-of-physics/ though he puts a more positive spin on it:
During the 1980s and 1990s, the bootstrap theory was eclipsed by the success of the standard model, which is very different, as it postulates the existence of fundamental fields and their corresponding particles. And today, bootstrap physics has virtually disappeared from the scene. However, if a theory of quantum gravity continues to remain elusive, and if the a priori assumption of the structure of space-time is broadly recognized as the essential flaw of string theory, the bootstrap idea may well will be revived someday, in some mathematical formulation or other.
:heart:
Mike

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