Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm
dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:36 pm
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:26 pm


He did admit to being a "theoretical" physicist. I'm just saying.
To me that just says he was more keen on philosophy than science which is even more concerning.
Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:01 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 am
SDC wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:22 pm
Well, then I can understand not praising, but can't understand the critiquing. If you aren't sure then why be so harsh?
The Establishment expects us to submit to it, in this particular case, that means submitting to the popular positive opinion about S. Hawking. Some people, like the OP, Angry Young Men, oppose this.

So I think this OP has only nominally to do with S. Hawking, but everything to do with opposition to the Establishment. Our resident AYM just haven't come to the point of being ... let's call that ... more subversive or sophisticated in their opposition.
rude & petty & vain

fwiw I am not the OP this thread was split. i just made one small comment initially & only said so much more because i was dogpiled
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:09 am

"Bhikkhus, whatever kinds of worldly merit there are, all are not worth one sixteenth part of the heart-deliverance of universal love; in shining and beaming and radiance the heart-deliverance of universal love far excels them."
- Iti 27
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm
dylanj wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:36 pm


To me that just says he was more keen on philosophy than science which is even more concerning.
Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:51 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm
Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
His legendary intelligence is well known, IMO great minds open the opportunity for the rest of us, to understand Buddha's holy way better. E.g black holes destroy matter, this is the ultimate end of samsara.

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:51 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:59 pm
Y'all who are defending him know the Buddha said the majority of humans are reborn in the hell realms right?
His legendary intelligence is well known, IMO great minds open the opportunity for the rest of us, to understand Buddha's holy way better. E.g black holes destroy matter, this is the ultimate end of samsara.

:anjali:
the buddha didn't teach any ultimate end of samsara though

i think there's room for quantum physics to be compared to buddhism (pm for book on this) but it's too easy to draw flawed/false conclusions with stuff like black holes, & i've thought about the concept a whole lot so i understand the urge
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:58 pm


Im sorry, I had to mark you as a "foe", your messages are no longer displayed to me. I never done this before. I apologize.

:namaste:
why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
it's ok thx
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:16 pm

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:23 pm
dylanj wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:47 pm


why would you apologize? i don't care.
I'm really sorry about my mistake this headless"foe" thing. I can read your comments again, it's undone. I felt like nervous breakdown, but I'm okay and listen to every dhamma friends.

:namaste:
it's ok thx
Thank you too. Some of us may reborn in hell, others in samsara (like me). All life on earth will be wiped out in 600 million years, due to solar instability. After this, the sun will destroy this planet. And this is not the most disturbing, Andromeda galaxy will collide with milky way, everything will be torn apart. The cold space turn into fire like hell,as particles collide and release energy. At the end, nothing remains, only huge black holes. At this point, our universe is dead. Maybe in other universes, life still flourish and samsara exist forever. :)

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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mikenz66
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 am

dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm
i think there's room for quantum physics to be compared to buddhism (pm for book on this) but it's too easy to draw flawed/false conclusions with stuff like black holes, & i've thought about the concept a whole lot so i understand the urge
Yes, most of what I've seen attempting to connect physics and Dhamma (or Eastern thought in general) was very superficial, since in most cases the author know little about dhamma, or little about physics, or little about either.

I personally recommend Alan Wallace's Choosing Reality http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/buddhis ... ality.aspx
Wallace actually has a degree in physics (though not an advanced degree), as well as his Tibetan Buddhism credentials.

I like Wallace's approach, which is to draw parallels between approaches, rather than details. Wheras, trying to compare, for example, "Dark Energy" with some Dhamma idea seems pointless to me. Cutting-edge physics theories are ephemeral, and are likely to turn out to be erronious - that's the nature of cutting edge science! I recall reading, The Tao of Physics back in the late 70s. The book made a big deal out of a particular particle-physics theory, which, by the time I read the book, had fallen out of favour. Capra discusses this on his web site: http://www.fritjofcapra.net/the-unification-of-physics/ though he puts a more positive spin on it:
During the 1980s and 1990s, the bootstrap theory was eclipsed by the success of the standard model, which is very different, as it postulates the existence of fundamental fields and their corresponding particles. And today, bootstrap physics has virtually disappeared from the scene. However, if a theory of quantum gravity continues to remain elusive, and if the a priori assumption of the structure of space-time is broadly recognized as the essential flaw of string theory, the bootstrap idea may well will be revived someday, in some mathematical formulation or other.
:heart:
Mike

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:23 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 am
dylanj wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:00 pm
i think there's room for quantum physics to be compared to buddhism (pm for book on this) but it's too easy to draw flawed/false conclusions with stuff like black holes, & i've thought about the concept a whole lot so i understand the urge
Yes, most of what I've seen attempting to connect physics and Dhamma (or Eastern thought in general) was very superficial, since in most cases the author know little about dhamma, or little about physics, or little about either.

I personally recommend Alan Wallace's Choosing Reality http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/buddhis ... ality.aspx
Wallace actually has a degree in physics (though not an advanced degree), as well as his Tibetan Buddhism credentials.

I like Wallace's approach, which is to draw parallels between approaches, rather than details. Wheras, trying to compare, for example, "Dark Energy" with some Dhamma idea seems pointless to me. Cutting-edge physics theories are ephemeral, and are likely to turn out to be erronious - that's the nature of cutting edge science! I recall reading, The Tao of Physics back in the late 70s. The book made a big deal out of a particular particle-physics theory, which, by the time I read the book, had fallen out of favour. Capra discusses this on his web site: http://www.fritjofcapra.net/the-unification-of-physics/ though he puts a more positive spin on it:
During the 1980s and 1990s, the bootstrap theory was eclipsed by the success of the standard model, which is very different, as it postulates the existence of fundamental fields and their corresponding particles. And today, bootstrap physics has virtually disappeared from the scene. However, if a theory of quantum gravity continues to remain elusive, and if the a priori assumption of the structure of space-time is broadly recognized as the essential flaw of string theory, the bootstrap idea may well will be revived someday, in some mathematical formulation or other.
:heart:
Mike
Yes, it's makes no sense mixing physics and Buddhism. I tried it without success, it's like insanity. The heritage of professor Hawking remaining with us.

He studied black holes. These are very interesting objects, there is no time in a black hole, as gravity & time is interconnected. Extraordinary gravity stops time. Information goes into black hole and never get out again, as Hawking said. I can't imagine flying into a black hole and come back without any harm. :) For example, time slows down in the center of earth, because gravity slows down time.

Time is also connected with speed. At lightning speed, time is almost stopped. So light must have another time clock, it reach us in 8 mins from the sun. It's hard to comprehend.

:bow:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:05 am

Susskind defeated the theory of Hawking, he said information is not lost in black holes. Hawking admitted, that he was wrong. However I believe Hawking was right, I fly into a black hole,  spaghettified by gravity, all my atoms torn apart into particles, still no information is lost. That makes no sense. These holes do evaporate in some trillion years, but I think an astronaut will never come back from a black hole.

Imagine the center of a black hole! Time is stopped, temperature is some billion degrees, matter is compressed, millions of captured stars flying there, that's what I call of point of no return.

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

chownah
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:18 am

onceruturner,
I think you are using the wrong concept of "information". In physics they are not using it to mean something that is held in the mind....in physics it means more like IF you knew everything about a particle and its environment then that information is enough to determing then entire history of that particle for example where it was and what its environment was at any previous time.......it is sort of like determinism only going back in time instead of forwards in time...

I am not a physicist so some or all of what I have said may be wrong.
chownah

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No_Mind
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by No_Mind » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:44 am

A general comment since I read the word quantum and Buddhism together in a sentence written by dylanj.

My post is about quantum woo being BS.
Definition of quantum woo

Quantum woo is the justification of irrational beliefs by an obfuscatory reference to quantum physics. Buzzwords like "energy field", "probability wave", or "wave-particle duality" are used to magically turn thoughts into something tangible in order to directly affect the universe. This results in such foolishness as the Law of Attraction or quantum healing. Some have turned quantum woo into a career, such as Deepak Chopra, who often presents ill-defined concepts of quantum physics as proof for God and other magical thinking.

When an idea seems too crazy to believe, the proponent often makes an appeal to quantum physics as the explanation. This is a New Age version of God of the gaps.

Quantum woo is an attempt to piggy-back on the success and legitimacy of science by claiming quack ideas are rooted in accepted concepts in physics, combined with utter misunderstanding of these concepts and a sense of wonder at the amazing magic these misunderstandings would imply if true. A quick way to tell if a claim about quantum physics has scientific validity is to ask for the mathematics. If there isn't any, it's rubbish. Brian Cox proposed one should challenge Deepak Chopra to first solve the Schrödinger equation for a spherically symmetrical potential, then talk about quantum healing.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Quantum_woo
Trying to tangle quantum physics with religion is very old concept.

The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism by Fritjof Capra was the first attempt in 1975.

The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukav was second attempt in 1979.

In 1990s it was used by Deepak Chopra again in several of his books. It caused me to spend months trying to understand "spooky action at a distance"

How .. is it explained .. it basically says that the observer affects the observation (I am condensing it mightily .. summarising 2000 pages by different authors to less than 80 words)

I place one of a pair of gloves in a box in room A and another one in another box in room B.

You enter room A. The box does not contain the right hand glove or the left hand glove. It contains both. You open it and see that it is the right hand glove and at that moment the glove in room B changes to left hand part of the pair (the so called "spooky action at a distance")

As long as it is not observed the glove is both left and right handed .. there is a probability not a certainty.

And .. we are suggested to think that this can be used to manipulate the universe .. we can run into the cute girl who moved in next door whenever we wish .. just by wishing it .. and that there are endless possibilities .. and so on. Words like non-locality and wave-particle duality are thrown about like confetti.

I spent three years of my life believing this steaming pile of BS.

The problem is this happens at only quantum level. We can know the position or speed of a particle but not both. Superposition (the basis of this argument) does not happen at the level of atoms and molecules (Classical or Newtonian physics) from where the example of of glove is given. We cannot manipulate the universe with our thoughts.

I would welcome any one who knows quantum physics to correct my example. I have often wondered did I understand what those guys were trying to sell correctly?

Do not read about it .. I repeat it is seductive, steaming pile of BS (not quantum mechanics or mysticism but quantum mysticism).

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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oncereturner
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:50 am

bodom wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:05 pm
How unfortunate that someone would criticize another for not holding a Buddhist belief system but yet does not follow them himself.
252. Easily seen is the fault of others, but one's own fault is difficult to see. Like chaff one winnows another's faults, but hides one's own, even as a crafty fowler hides behind sham branches.

253. He who seeks another's faults, who is ever censorious — his cankers grow. He is far from destruction of the cankers.
:namaste:
I think Bodom always tell the truth, pls listen to him. He is the no 1 of knowledge.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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