Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

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dylanj
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Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:54 am

[ Split from RIP Stephen Hawking ]

bodom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am
A great mind.
Did he keep the precepts?
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 am

what was great about his mind in your opinion
rest in peace is a false wish frankly
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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manas
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by manas » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:47 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:54 am
bodom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am
A great mind.
Did he keep the precepts?
How could any of us here know? You would have to ask him, and I think it's a bit late for that.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Sam Vara
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:44 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:54 am
bodom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am
A great mind.
Did he keep the precepts?
As he had virtually no control over his body, that might not be a particularly relevant question to ask. I would imagine that killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct were all beyond him, that his alcohol consumption was not excessive, and that the enormous effort required to operate his speech synthesiser would have led him to restrict utterances to physics and basic necessities of life. He occasionally commented about politics, but never so far as I can recall with malevolence.

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:44 am
dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:54 am
bodom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:34 am
A great mind.
Did he keep the precepts?
As he had virtually no control over his body, that might not be a particularly relevant question to ask. I would imagine that killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct were all beyond him, that his alcohol consumption was not excessive, and that the enormous effort required to operate his speech synthesiser would have led him to restrict utterances to physics and basic necessities of life. He occasionally commented about politics, but never so far as I can recall with malevolence.
The 5th precept isn't against excessive alcohol consumption it's against alcohol consumption.

I am not convinced he didn't lie.

The point though is more rhetorical & simply that I see no indication of purity or greatness on his part. He was good at math. So what? Aren't we Buddhists who believe in wisdom, ethics, & meditation as opposed to materialists in worship of intellectual skill?

As I see it his main contribution to the world was the spreading of materialist-scientism which is founded on wrong view.

I don't think we should praise him because he was famous & well-liked & is now dead.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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No_Mind
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by No_Mind » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:58 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am
As I see it his main contribution to the world was the spreading of materialist-scientism which is founded on wrong view.
Physics is wrong view? Would you care to elaborate.

Also, why call his work scientism? He was a "real" scientist and was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge .. an academic post once held by Newton.
Scientism is a term generally used to describe the facile application of science in unwarranted situations not amenable to application of the scientific method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
Hawking pursued facile application of science? Is that your opinion?


:namaste:

P.S - If Dylan replies I request mods to split it to a new thread from this post onwards
Last edited by No_Mind on Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sam Vara
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:04 pm

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am

The point though is more rhetorical & simply that I see no indication of purity or greatness on his part.
Nobody mentioned purity, but your claim to not see Hawking's greatness is a salutary admission on your part. It's something we can all learn from, so I thank you for it.

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by chownah » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 pm

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am
I don't think we should praise him because he was famous & well-liked & is now dead.
I think you should not praise him if you see nothing to praise in him. Other people find things to praise about him and this thread is a place where they have come to remember him and to mention those things which they find praiseworthy. No one is forcing anyone to come here and praise anyone......Your comments being made at the time of his death when people want to remember him are made at the wrong time and in the wrong place. I think you should delete your posts in this thread or have them deleted.

You can start a thread discussing who is praiseworthy if you want but you are out of line to make your posts here.
chownah

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by No_Mind » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:49 pm

chownah wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 pm
dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am
I don't think we should praise him because he was famous & well-liked & is now dead.
I think you should not praise him if you see nothing to praise in him. Other people find things to praise about him and this thread is a place where they have come to remember him and to mention those things which they find praiseworthy. No one is forcing anyone to come here and praise anyone......Your comments being made at the time of his death when people want to remember him are made at the wrong time and in the wrong place. I think you should delete your posts in this thread or have them deleted.

You can start a thread discussing who is praiseworthy if you want but you are out of line to make your posts here.
chownah
Well said :thumbsup:

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Professor Hawking dismissed the comforts of belief in the afterlife, and said that he expected nothing to greet him after he died.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he said. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by bodom » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:04 pm

chownah wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 pm
dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am
I don't think we should praise him because he was famous & well-liked & is now dead.
I think you should not praise him if you see nothing to praise in him. Other people find things to praise about him and this thread is a place where they have come to remember him and to mention those things which they find praiseworthy. No one is forcing anyone to come here and praise anyone......Your comments being made at the time of his death when people want to remember him are made at the wrong time and in the wrong place. I think you should delete your posts in this thread or have them deleted.

You can start a thread discussing who is praiseworthy if you want but you are out of line to make your posts here.
chownah
Thank you Chowna.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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oncereturner
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by oncereturner » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:14 pm

He studied black holes, and stated that information going to black hole is disappearing. His view was later defeated. However he also said that black holes evaporate slowly. This means information will be lost at the end, this is the ultimate death of universe, nothing remains, due to entropy.

This is embarrassing, but at the same time it's relaxing, because all suffering in the world will come to an end.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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dylanj
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:48 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:58 am
dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:50 am
As I see it his main contribution to the world was the spreading of materialist-scientism which is founded on wrong view.
Physics is wrong view? Would you care to elaborate.

Also, why call his work scientism? He was a "real" scientist and was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge .. an academic post once held by Newton.
Scientism is a term generally used to describe the facile application of science in unwarranted situations not amenable to application of the scientific method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism
Hawking pursued facile application of science? Is that your opinion?


:namaste:

P.S - If Dylan replies I request mods to split it to a new thread from this post onwards
Materialism is wrong view. Annihilationism is wrong view. Stephen Hawking held & promoted both these views.

He was a real scientist but he also posed as a philosopher. He made all sorts of unfounded conclusions (which he would often retract or change his mind on) that go far beyond the mathematical observations he's actually qualified to make - for example he says that this is the only universe, there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang. These are assumptions & views that are philosophical in nature, not scientific, & yet the masses of people who are incapable of understanding the distinction between science & the philosophical views of scientists will take it as objective truth because he said it - it's a misuse of authority.

He said all sorts of wacky, very dramatic things like that Artificial Intelligence will kill us all or that we need to go into space within the next 200 years to avoid extinction.

& he'd go into all sorts of speculation on black holes.

& it's important to understand he didn't know these things, they are speculative views, hence him changing his mind so often - but he used his status as a scientist to present them as fact.

Yes physics is wrong when it is assumed that the material world is actually real independent of the mind & is the source of the mind. These are wrong views.
Last edited by dylanj on Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:49 pm

I just don't understand why we should attribute greatness to scientists. In my view scientists by & large spread wrong view & fear in the world. Maybe a medical science who actually helps people could be praised. But the "greatest minds of the century" in my opinion are probably sitting in a forest or cave somewhere meditating to end their defilements. That's greatness.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

SarathW
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by SarathW » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:49 pm

I have read his book "a brief history of time "
I think it is a great book and in my opinion you can explain the operation of Kamma using his theory using the concept of "light cone".
He was not a Buddhist so I do not think he ever studied Buddhism or understood kamma according to Buddhist teaching.


http://www.fisica.net/relatividade/step ... f_time.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Circle5
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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by Circle5 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:12 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:48 pm
He was a real scientist but he also posed as a philosopher. He made all sorts of unfounded conclusions (which he would often retract or change his mind on) that go far beyond than the mathematical observations he's actually qualified to make - for example he says that this is the only universe, there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang. These are assumptions & views that are philosophical in nature, not scientific, & yet the masses of people who are incapable of understanding the distinction between science & the philosophical views of scientists will take it as objective truth because he said it - it's a misuse of authority.

He said all sorts of wacky, very dramatic things like that Artificial Intelligence will kill us all or that we need to go into space within the next 200 years to avoid extinction.

& he'd go into all sorts of speculation on black holes.

& it's important to understand he didn't know these things, they are speculative views, hence him changing his mind so often - but he used his status as a scientist to present them as fact.

Yes physics is wrong when it is assumed that the material world is actually real independent of the mind & is the source of the mind. These are wrong views.
:goodpost:
Indeed he was one of the staunch materialist out there and he has always been very active in promoting this view. But as buddhist, I think we should be happy with materialism spreading and replacing christianity. Christianity is a closed cult, it keeps people in through the use of fear and mind-conditioning. Statistics show that buddhism is more popular in atheist countries than in christian ones.

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:13 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:49 pm
I just don't understand why we should attribute greatness to scientists.

Science is secular religion.

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Re: RIP Stephen Hawking

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:26 am

Greetings Circle5,
Circle5 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:12 am
But as buddhist, I think we should be happy with materialism spreading and replacing christianity.
I disagree, for reasons discussed previously in the Atheism is an Unskillful False Dhamma topic.
Circle5 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:12 am
Christianity is a closed cult, it keeps people in through the use of fear and mind-conditioning.
Christianity is far too diverse to be characterised in such a way.

Moreover, in a religious vacuum, atheists are inclined to take either either far-left politics as a proxy for religion, (see Victims of Communism for details of resulting atrocities) and/or inadvertently endorse false dhammas like globalism and elitism.

I see no reason for a Buddhist (other than perhaps one from the California school of Western Buddhism) to be pleased with this kind of fruitopia...



Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

SarathW
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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by SarathW » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:26 am

he would often retract or change his mind on
Could you give me some examples?
I can recall only one.
That is if I am not wrong that he said we can go back to the past.
If I can recall he said that a broken glass will be automatically fixed when you go back to the past.
Latter he changed his mind on this view.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Critiquing the life of Stephen Hawking

Post by dylanj » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:53 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:26 am
he would often retract or change his mind on
Could you give me some examples?
I can recall only one.
That is if I am not wrong that he said we can go back to the past.
If I can recall he said that a broken glass will be automatically fixed when you go back to the past.
Latter he changed his mind on this view.
I believe he has both said that AI are nothing to worry about & that they will kill us all, with the former view replaced by the latter.

& that a black hole destroys everything but then later that it does not.
susukhaṃ vata nibbānaṃ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṃ;
asokaṃ virajaṃ khemaṃ,
yattha dukkhaṃ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ panītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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