Americans will never give up their guns.

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
Justsit
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:48 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:58 am
My personal opinion ...
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
:anjali:


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19580
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:43 am

Greetings Justsit,
Justsit wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:48 pm
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
Not a problem. And just as something of a postscript to that answer, here's further indication that has since come out, that substantiates what I spoke of...

Documents suggest possible coordination between CIA, FBI, Obama WH and Dem officials early in Trump-Russia probe: investigators

The Real Collusion Story
(a long article, but excellent)

... and I predict much more coming to light over the course of the year. These select leaks are just a teaser to get people gradually accustomed to the full magnitude of the corruption. We saw the lengths Clinton went to in order to sabotage one of her own (i.e. Bernie Sanders) during the Democratic primaries... so it really shouldn't surprise anyone the lengths she and her co-conspirators would go to in order to sabotage an anti-establishment Republican who threatened to drain the swamp in Washington D.C.!

Anyway, the connection here relates to the enactment of the full Obama-Clinton 16 year plan as it pertained to guns and the 2nd amendment. If anyone wishes to discuss the various corruption probes in their own right, it's probably best we do it in another topic. Thanks.

:)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Kamran
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Kamran » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:18 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:43 am
Greetings Justsit,
Justsit wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:48 pm
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
Not a problem. And just as something of a postscript to that answer, here's further indication that has since come out, that substantiates what I spoke of...

Documents suggest possible coordination between CIA, FBI, Obama WH and Dem officials early in Trump-Russia probe: investigators

The Real Collusion Story
(a long article, but excellent)

... and I predict much more coming to light over the course of the year. These select leaks are just a teaser to get people gradually accustomed to the full magnitude of the corruption. We saw the lengths Clinton went to in order to sabotage one of her own (i.e. Bernie Sanders) during the Democratic primaries... so it really shouldn't surprise anyone the lengths she and her co-conspirators would go to in order to sabotage an anti-establishment Republican who threatened to drain the swamp in Washington D.C.!

Anyway, the connection here relates to the enactment of the full Obama-Clinton 16 year plan as it pertained to guns and the 2nd amendment. If anyone wishes to discuss the various corruption probes in their own right, it's probably best we do it in another topic. Thanks.

:)

Metta,
Paul. :)
He doesn't like the FBI and CIA to spy on him, but does not mind if they spy on millions of average citizens.
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

Dinsdale
Posts: 5614
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:53 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm
I see two main arguments presented in favour of Americans keeping their guns.

- Protection (as a collective deterrent, and means to fight back) against government tyranny
- Personal protection against attackers
Most western democracies are able to protect themselves against "government tyranny" without mass gun ownership, so I find the first argument here entirely unconvincing. It's also an anachronism.

I also find the second reason unconvincing. International studies demonstrate that the main result of mass gun ownership is a lot more people being killed by guns.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
Pseudobabble
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:11 am
Location: London

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Pseudobabble » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:38 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:53 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm
I see two main arguments presented in favour of Americans keeping their guns.

- Protection (as a collective deterrent, and means to fight back) against government tyranny
- Personal protection against attackers
Most western democracies are able to protect themselves against "government tyranny" without mass gun ownership

Evidence?

Just because state tyranny isn't in place in most western democracies right now doesn't mean that it is the lack of mass gun ownership which keeps it from appearing.

Absence of guns among the citizenry is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for absence of state tyranny.

I would say that presence of guns among the citizenry is, if not a necessary or sufficient condition for absence of state tyranny, then a very strong deterrent to those in the state who would wish to implement said tyranny.

Coercive power in the hands of the citizenry (as opposed to the state) is a necessary condition for the absence of state tyranny over the long term.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:00 pm

Then why don't our Australian and English friends want to give up their free health insurance and move to USA??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 3627
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:16 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:00 pm
Then why don't our Australian and English friends want to give up their free health insurance and move to USA??
Personally, I'm frightened of being shot... :jumping:

A reminder might be needed here that in England we don't have free health insurance; we have compulsory health insurance. And the system shows increasing signs of not working.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19580
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:37 pm

Greetings,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:00 pm
Then why don't our Australian and English friends want to give up their free health insurance and move to USA??
There is no free health insurance here. If you wish to pay my monthly premium, and my Medicare levy etc., Lyndon, and make it free for me then be my guest.

Not that I see the connection with guns...

:guns:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by SDC » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:34 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:00 pm
Then why don't our Australian and English friends want to give up their free health insurance and move to USA??
Australia and the UK have free health insurance?

User avatar
binocular
Posts: 5362
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by binocular » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:51 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:53 am
Most western democracies are able to protect themselves against "government tyranny" without mass gun ownership
It's more that most western democracies are able to protect themselves against "government tyranny" by complying with this tyranny and promoting it, so that it doesn't look like tyranny at all.

pulga
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by pulga » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:00 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:43 am

The Real Collusion Story (a long article, but excellent)
Agreed. I printed it out and gave it a close read. I look forward to the day when the major players in the smear face justice. They've done a lot of harm to the nation.


Dinsdale
Posts: 5614
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:44 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:38 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:53 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm
I see two main arguments presented in favour of Americans keeping their guns.

- Protection (as a collective deterrent, and means to fight back) against government tyranny
- Personal protection against attackers
Most western democracies are able to protect themselves against "government tyranny" without mass gun ownership

Evidence?
They wouldn't elect a clown like Trump. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:43 am

Evidence is the gun nuts support government tyranny as they're the ones that voted for Trump
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by SDC » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:55 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:43 am
Evidence is the gun nuts support government tyranny as they're the ones that voted for Trump
I'm still curious about the claim that the UK and Australia have free health insurance. Is that true? - Mr Sea Lion

User avatar
SDC
Posts: 4222
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by SDC » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:56 pm

pulga wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:00 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:43 am

The Real Collusion Story (a long article, but excellent)
Agreed. I printed it out and gave it a close read. I look forward to the day when the major players in the smear face justice. They've done a lot of harm to the nation.
What is going to be most unfortunate is that no matter what facts come out in the end, people are going to decide the truth primarily based on their sensibilities. Even if those they support are shown to have broken the law or purposefully acted dishonestly, they will never side with the truth. At best they will opt to abstain from lending support. This goes for Dems and Republicans alike - people no longer care about the truth, they just want to find a way to have been "right" the entire time. That pride is one of the reasons America s*cks right now.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests