Americans will never give up their guns.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Kim OHara » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:34 am

From facebook, fwiw ...
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Shout out to all the kids that walked out today. It's truly inspiring to see these kids fight for their safety. And the safety of all future generations. I used to skip school to play golf or go to the beach. Never once did I skip for it to mean something greater than myself. I honestly could not be prouder of these kids. So everyone young and old take in a big gulp of air... History will remember this day.- Aaron Jackson

Please note this stat represents children killed by guns since 2012.

Also note that almost every week a toddler is either killed or kills someone else due to a gun.
:rolleye:
Kim

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Kim OHara
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:23 am

Most Americans will have seen most of this, I hope.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/24/us/m ... index.html

:coffee:
Kim

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robertk
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by robertk » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:03 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:34 am
From facebook, fwiw ...

compare.jpg
Shout out to all the kids that walked out today. It's truly inspiring to see these kids fight for their safety. And the safety of all future generations. I used to skip school to play golf or go to the beach. Never once did I skip for it to mean something greater than myself. I honestly could not be prouder of these kids. So everyone young and old take in a big gulp of air... History will remember this day.- Aaron Jackson

Please note this stat represents children killed by guns since 2012.

Also note that almost every week a toddler is either killed or kills someone else due to a gun.
:rolleye:
Kim
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... nts-were-/
Facebook post incorrectly says 7,182 students were killed in U.S. schools since 2012

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Kim OHara
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:40 am

robertk wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:03 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:34 am
From facebook, fwiw ...

compare.jpg
Shout out to all the kids that walked out today. It's truly inspiring to see these kids fight for their safety. And the safety of all future generations. I used to skip school to play golf or go to the beach. Never once did I skip for it to mean something greater than myself. I honestly could not be prouder of these kids. So everyone young and old take in a big gulp of air... History will remember this day.- Aaron Jackson

Please note this stat represents children killed by guns since 2012.

Also note that almost every week a toddler is either killed or kills someone else due to a gun.
:rolleye:
Kim
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... nts-were-/
Facebook post incorrectly says 7,182 students were killed in U.S. schools since 2012
Correction noted. :thanks:
Politifact wrote:Bloggers said shoes on the Capitol lawn this week represented 7,182 students killed in U.S. schools since 2012.

That’s not accurate. The pairs of shoes symbolized more than 7,000 children who had been killed by gun violence since the Sandy Hook school shooting. The number of children killed in school violence, while fluid, is certainly smaller than that total.
That makes me feel so much better about guns in the US.
:rolleye:

:toilet:
Kim

chownah
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:41 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:40 am
robertk wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:03 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:34 am
From facebook, fwiw ...

compare.jpg



:rolleye:
Kim
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... nts-were-/
Facebook post incorrectly says 7,182 students were killed in U.S. schools since 2012
Correction noted. :thanks:
Politifact wrote:Bloggers said shoes on the Capitol lawn this week represented 7,182 students killed in U.S. schools since 2012.

That’s not accurate. The pairs of shoes symbolized more than 7,000 children who had been killed by gun violence since the Sandy Hook school shooting. The number of children killed in school violence, while fluid, is certainly smaller than that total.
That makes me feel so much better about guns in the US.
:rolleye:

:toilet:
Kim
I don't know what your intentions are but it really seems like you are dumping shade on robertk for bringing us the fact that the facts as they were presented were a misrepresentation.
chownah
Robertk,
Thanks for bring the link which shows how the facts were misrepresented.
Good work.
chownah
Edit: Sorry that I didn't read kim ohara's post thoroughly before replying....sorry that I falsely accused kim ohara of casting shade......see my post below.
chownah
Last edited by chownah on Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:27 pm

Kim stated in the original post that these were children killed by guns, not those killed only in school
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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chownah
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:48 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:27 pm
Kim stated in the original post that these were children killed by guns, not those killed only in school
Yeah, and kim ohara also thanked robertk for bringing the correction and in my haste to criticize I didn't see that so I criticized kim ohara falsely.
chownah

Kim ohara,
Please accept my sincere apology for have falsely accused you of casting shade on robertk when in fact you thanked him for the correction. My inappropriate remark is my own fault....there is nothing in your post for which you can be faulted.....I wish I could say the same thing about mine.
Sorry,
chownah

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Circle5
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Circle5 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Justsit wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:40 am
Interesting article in Scientific American magazine offering some insight into "Why are [US} White Men Stockpiling Guns?"

"Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... ling-guns/
I agree, but rather the cause for those racial fear is not biggoted racism, but actually brutal statistics on black crime. We have gypsies in europe and their culture is a culture of outlaws. (they come from the outlaw caste in India) Their culture is against paying taxes and working. Even filthy rich gypsies that live in big gypsy pallaces refuse to pay taxes for water and electricity. But at least they are not too violent. In USA, black minorities are highly violent.

The way to convince normal people on this point is to make the argument in reverse. They should be asked weather it is a good idea that such a violent minority group, also having problems with crack cocaine should have access to guns. They'll probably reply with "but if we ban guns, they will still have them". But things work totally different in reality. If you ban guns, people really will stop having them. Having a gun on you is worse than having a big amount of drugs. Does any criminal carry big amounts of drugs on him just for fun, just to be cool ? Why would anyone have a gun rather than having a huge amount of drugs on him ? The gun is not producing any money. It is because of this logic that having a gun is seen as something childish by mobsters from gun-free countries. There is no way that gun can produce money for you. All it can do is get you in tons of problems for no reason. He can even get you and other people from your mob group in big troubles because of childish stupidity.

Mobsters here fight with swords. Fighting with swords is much better for any mobster. The goal is only to intimidate, there is no money to be made through causing real damage. They rarely even injure themselves by using swords. Nobody is really interested in that, the focus is 100% on the money. Fighting with swords is infinitely more efficient from a mobster point of view.

Having guns is neither helping the normal people, neither helping the criminals who end up in jail more often without producing any money in the process.
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Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:26 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:21 pm
Justsit wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:40 am
Interesting article in Scientific American magazine offering some insight into "Why are [US} White Men Stockpiling Guns?"

"Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... ling-guns/
the cause for those racial fear is not biggoted racism,
How do you know what motivates others' fear?
Circle5 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:21 pm
The gun is not producing any money.
Of course the gun doesn't produce money. The guns protect the dealers and their drugs from other dealers who will steal the drugs and/or kill the dealers. Guns are power, and in the US might makes right. Ultimately, it's all about the money.
Circle5 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:21 pm
Having guns is neither helping the normal people...
Well, yes, that's totally the point, but tell it to the NRA. It falls on deaf ears.

And sword fighting went out around here with Zorro :smile:

Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:04 pm

Retired US Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens calls for repeal of the Second Amendment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/opin ... dment.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 461672002/

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retrofuturist
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm

Greetings,
Justsit wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:26 pm
How do you know what motivates others' fear?
I see two main arguments presented in favour of Americans keeping their guns.

- Protection (as a collective deterrent, and means to fight back) against government tyranny
- Personal protection against attackers

Whilst we hear more in the media about the 2nd of these, the origins and the motives of those who stand behind the second amendment actually seem more geared towards the 1st.

I believe that as we increasingly learn more about about government and bureaucratic corruption, malfeasance and abuses of power during the Obama years and prior to that, the "protection against government tyranny" argument isn't going to seem so trivial to those who would currently diminish it.

After all, America itself is a radical experiment in freedom and liberty, and those around the world (and within America itself) who wish to clamp down on individual freedom and liberty long for the day that it no longer serves as a beacon of freedom and liberty, or as the "leader of the free world". Such people are more than happy to bring America down through subversion of government. These people want to neuter the 2nd Amendment, as it is an obstacle to their subversion... hence why they've put so much effort into funding, hyping and promoting anti-2A activism. They've moved on from funding the 99%. They've moved on from funding Black Lives Matter. They've moved on from funding Antifa. This is where their virtually infinite resources go today, in their quest to dim America's light.

:spy:

I do sympathize however with non-patriots who were born in America, but would prefer to be smothered and coddled by an over-bearing authoritarian police state, or imagine themselves hob-nobbing with the globalist elite who oversee and supervise stifling and stagnant socialist regimes. Hence why I do think there's some merit in an international exchange of citizens, so people have more autonomy on whether to "opt in" or "opt out" of the freedom and liberty inherent within the constitutional republic of the United States of America. (Similarly, this is why I'm not against CalExit either, as it's a similar scenario in this regard.)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:00 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm
Greetings,
Justsit wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:26 pm
How do you know what motivates others' fear?
I see two main arguments presented in favour of Americans keeping their guns.

- Protection (as a collective deterrent, and means to fight back) against government tyranny
- Personal protection against attackers
....

Paul. :)
So, in your opinion, why didn't the government come for the privately owned assault weapons (and others?) when Obama was president? The timing was superb and the door was wide open - the administration had ample time, control of the military, and half the populace in favor of the action. And yet it didn't happen. And it certainly isn't going to happen with the current administration.

Do you think the Trump administration represents or supports government tyranny?

"Some people are more than happy to bring America down..." WHO EXACTLY are you referring to? The Russians? The Chinese? Muslims? Socialists? Communists? The Koch Brothers? George Soros? The Bilderberg group? Please be very specific, because this is the part that totally escapes me. Since I'm looking at this as lived experience, from the inside as it were, maybe I'm missing something that's obvious to non-USians.

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SDC
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by SDC » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:06 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:40 am
Correction noted. :thanks:
Politifact wrote:Bloggers said shoes on the Capitol lawn this week represented 7,182 students killed in U.S. schools since 2012.

That’s not accurate. The pairs of shoes symbolized more than 7,000 children who had been killed by gun violence since the Sandy Hook school shooting. The number of children killed in school violence, while fluid, is certainly smaller than that total.
That makes me feel so much better about guns in the US.
:rolleye:

:toilet:
Kim
I don't own a gun. I support an assault weapons ban. I support expanded background checks. Closing all the loopholes. And I'll support any reasonable measure that puts us on a road to a gun free America. But one thing I don't support are people who have to try and put glitter an already tragic state of affairs in order to try and make it even look more tragic. Kim, I wondering why, even though you have been shown the facts, that you would leave that ridiculously large meme in your post above when you have the option to delete it. What a shining example of how poorly information is transmitted these days. Do you figure even though it is inaccurate that it can still serve a purpose? Do you really think you need to put window dressing on the gun epidemic in the US? The reality isn't exciting enough for you?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:58 am

Greetings Justsit,
Justsit wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:00 am
So, in your opinion, why didn't the government come for the privately owned assault weapons (and others?) when Obama was president? The timing was superb and the door was wide open - the administration had ample time, control of the military, and half the populace in favor of the action. And yet it didn't happen. And it certainly isn't going to happen with the current administration.
My personal opinion (which is what you've asked for and that I'm presenting on that basis alone, since I have no wish to actively "debate" it with anybody) is that the long-term plan was to do this during the Hillary administration, once Hillary had filled the outstanding Supreme Court position, which ultimately went to Neil Gorsuch. The Obama-era was intended to set in motion the "culture shift", setting the scene for a gun grab under Hillary. How were they so confident that Hillary would win and that they would have a 16 year window in which to enact these plans? Well, they certainly went to a lot of efforts behind the scenes to manifest that scenario... and details of this corruption (and treason?) will progressively come out throughout the course of the year. (There's only so much time that MSM can obsess themselves with Stormy Daniels for, surely? :lol: )
Justsit wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:00 am
Do you think the Trump administration represents or supports government tyranny?
No. I believe it's about re-introducing transparency and accountability to government. Returning government to the people, and away from the "deep state", as per Trump's inauguration speech. The amount of projection done by mainstream media and the political establishment in this regard is truly remarkable.
Justsit wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:00 am
"Some people are more than happy to bring America down..." WHO EXACTLY are you referring to? The Russians? The Chinese? Muslims? Socialists? Communists? The Koch Brothers? George Soros?
More specifically, globalists like Soros, the House of Saud, the Rothschilds... and those doing the bidding of their globalist cabal, including but certainly not restricted to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, senior bureaucrats at the DOJ/FBI/CIA etc., as well as the bulk of mainstream media and many establishment politicians from both major parties etc.

You might call this a conspiracy theory? If so, I guess Trump is a conspiracy theorist too...



Again, all my opinion. I'm happy for others to share their opinions in turn, but I have no interest in debate, nor in managing the feelings of anyone who would emotionally discharge their displeasure and outrage at what is said here.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

chownah
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by chownah » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:59 am

Great speach. Bet he didn't write it. Great political speaches are a dime a dozen....they always give a nice emotional jolt which can for many last a long time. Too bad he is the personification and part and parcel of all that he describes as the problem.
chownah

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