Americans will never give up their guns.

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No_Mind
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:40 am

As a teacher I find lot of trouble with the concept of arming teachers. It is our task to teach, not shoot. And how will a teacher look with a Sig Sauer in a pistol belt.

What if a student dies in crossfire from the teacher's gun? He/she will be shattered. But US schools should have an armed guard given the recent spate of shootings.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:17 am

The Parkland school had an armed guard on duty and he didn't do shxt!!
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DNS
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by DNS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:18 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:17 am
The Parkland school had an armed guard on duty and he didn't do shxt!!
That and the fact that police were called 39 times to his house for various domestic issues and mental health issues. He should never have been allowed to have any gun, not just an AR-15. There is lots of blame to throw around (gun laws, gun availability, poor background checks, age of 18 allowed for rifle purchases in Florida, police not stopping him from purchasing firearms, FBI not stopping him), but most notably the Sheriff's dept and local police who knew he was trouble.
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:40 am
As a teacher I find lot of trouble with the concept of arming teachers. It is our task to teach, not shoot. And how will a teacher look with a Sig Sauer in a pistol belt.
Ideally yes, a teacher's task is to teach, not shoot. But what about the task of protecting the students? The students' task is to learn and study, not to be killed by a madman or to fear being shot or killed by a madman.
What if a student dies in crossfire from the teacher's gun? He/she will be shattered. But US schools should have an armed guard given the recent spate of shootings.
I don't think any of the proposals for teachers to be armed call for forcing them to be armed. I believe the proposals are for some teachers to do so on a voluntary basis and only after they pass background checks on themselves, pass gun safety courses, etc.

From a utilitarian perspective, a few armed teachers stopping an active shooter before he kills any students or before he kills too many, results in fewer deaths. It takes a long time for police to arrive on a scene and by that time, numerous fatalities would have already occurred.

I know, from a Buddhist perspective all killing is bad; but we're not talking about arahants here, just ordinary worldlings trying to save the most number of lives. And theoretically at least, a teacher could aim for incapacitating the shooter, not killing (shooting in the leg or at least lower torso) and then the intention would be non-lethal.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:22 am

:goodpost:

:thumbsup:

Metta,
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Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:48 pm

So wait...the answer to having too many guns is to have more guns?

The logic escapes me.

How many guns will be enough? We already have 330 million here.
:guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns: :guns:

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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by denise » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:09 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Mr Man » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:40 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:15 am
Greetings,

Image

Metta,
Paul. :)

What does the cartoon even mean?

Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:40 pm
What does the cartoon even mean?
I think it's supposed to mean the kid will go shoot up the school with no armed guards; therefore, kids are safer in schools with guards.

Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?

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Mr Man
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Mr Man » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:40 pm

Hi Justit
Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:40 pm
What does the cartoon even mean?
I think it's supposed to mean the kid will go shoot up the school with no armed guards; therefore, kids are safer in schools with guards.
But don't the perpetrators of these mass shootings normally have an association with the school that they attack? The message is dishonest.
Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm

Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?
Exactly.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:41 pm

Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:40 pm
What does the cartoon even mean?
Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?
Follow this logic until only one entity has the guns: the State. What makes the State more trustworthy than any individual? Nothing.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

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Mr Man
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Mr Man » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:48 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:41 pm
Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:40 pm
What does the cartoon even mean?
Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?
Follow this logic until only one entity has the guns: the State. What makes the State more trustworthy than any individual? Nothing.
Looks like you live in the UK. Gun control seems to work fairly well here doesn't it.

Do you think kids having guns is a good thing and helps to protect society from the excesses of the state?

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DNS
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by DNS » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:12 pm

Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm
Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?
There are already laws against under-age people (i.e., including kids) from owning guns. The problem is that many of the shooters obtain their guns illegally.

There are too many guns in the marketplace. A complete and total ban of all guns is one proposed solution, but few believe that this is possible, in the U.S. There are just so many in existence already. Most gun owners would hide their guns and not turn them in, even if money were offered for turning them in.

There was an assault weapons ban passed in 1994, but it expired in 2004 and even that law had a "grandfather" clause that allowed all existing owners of assault weapons to keep them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_A ... eapons_Ban

binocular
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by binocular » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:32 pm

I think the problem aren't guns, legal or illegal, many or few, easy or hard to obtain.

It's that people are free to think of other humans as their enemies, and are even encouraged to do so, in many blatant and subtle ways. Whether it's in the form of a militant rhetoric of "Those who are not with us are against us", or the "normal" people vs. the "abnormal" ones.
And as long as this persists, people will find ways to kill eachother.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:02 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:40 pm
But don't the perpetrators of these mass shootings normally have an association with the school that they attack? The message is dishonest.
Yes. Agree.

Justsit
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Re: Americans will never give up their guns.

Post by Justsit » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:30 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:41 pm
Justsit wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:48 pm
Why not just take the gun out of the kid's hands?
Follow this logic until only one entity has the guns: the State. What makes the State more trustworthy than any individual? Nothing.
No one in the US is aiming to take all guns away and give them to the State. That ship sailed a long time ago.

If the government was coming for the guns, they had a prime opportunity during the EIGHT YEARS Obama was in office.
And it DID NOT happen. Now there's an NRA approved President, and the paranoid are no less paranoid. One comment I've read is that "The government" is really a dog whistle for "Black and brown people." That at least makes sense.


The problem as it stands now is multi-faceted, and will require a multi-faceted approach to mitigate.

Guns are too easily obtained in the US, no rational person questions that. So there are a number of steps that can be taken to make guns less accessible to those who should not have them. For example, some suggest we should equate gun ownership to ownership of other items with potential to harm, such as cars and driving licenses. In order to drive a car (an action that puts others at risk if you are not qualified), you must have a license. You must pass a test to show that you know how to drive a car safely in traffic and you must have liability insurance before you get your license. The same process can and should be implemented to own a deadly weapon. That in no way restricts ownership, you must simply show you will be a responsible owner.

Other suggestions include an assault weapons ban or at least an age limit to purchase, mental health and some medication proscriptions, and a waiting period for purchase. Also, gun sales at gun shows should be regulated. As it is now, it is too easy to bypass even the lax rules gun shops must follow. There are many others I don't have time to enumerate. I think a combination of all these types of checks would go a long way to help control the madness we have now.

More guns is not the answer.

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