Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

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DooDoot
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:45 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:27 am
and further reading
Obviously you did not read my post. :roll: I don't need to read these links. I know what the official Japanese govt debt is: http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:07 am
I disagree with your disagreement.
I might disagree with my disagreement, also, but at a later time. I'll let you play with this while I sleep. :hello: :zzz:
The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP)[a] as of Q1 2014.

The U.S. increased the ratio of public and private debt from 152% GDP in 1980 to peak at 296% GDP in 2008, before falling to 279% GDP by Q2 2011. The 2009-2011 decline was due to foreclosures and increased rates of household saving. There were significant declines in debt to GDP in each sector except the government, which ran large deficits to offset deleveraging or debt reduction in other sectors.

As of 2009, there was $50.7 trillion of debt owed by US households, businesses, and governments, representing more than 3.5 times the annual gross domestic product of the United States. As of the first quarter of 2010, domestic financial assets totaled $131 trillion and domestic financial liabilities $106 trillion. Tangible assets in 2008 (such as real estate and equipment) for selected sectors totaled an additional $56.3 trillion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial ... ted_States
More here:
America Is Not Drowning In Debt: These 6 Charts Destroy The Biggest Myth About The US Economy

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amer ... ?r=US&IR=T
The above said, something happened in 2008, which appears to not be cured. :shock: :zzz:

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No_Mind
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:52 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:45 am
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:27 am
and further reading
Obviously you did not read my post. :roll: I don't need to read these links. I know what the official Japanese govt debt is: http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

I used the map of global debt you shared above. It shows Japanese debt at 261% :?

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SarathW
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm

Looks like all major economies has a lot of debts.
Who lends that money to them?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by Disciple » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm
Looks like all major economies has a lot of debts.
Who lends that money to them?
Image

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:23 pm
Who lends that money to them?
China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, wealthy Americans. Based on the info below (say $320T in assets and 320M in population), the richest 1% of Americans have assets of $122 trillion or $38M each. The next 19% own 55% of the assets or $176 trillion or $3M each. So the top 20% of Americans have $300 trillion in assets, which can contribute to lending towards the $21 trillion US govt debt.
Currently, the richest 1% hold about 38% of all privately held wealth in the United States. while the bottom 90% held 73% of all debt. According to The New York Times, the richest 1 percent in the United States now own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent.... the bottom 80% own 7%..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in ... ted_States
The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP)[a] as of Q1 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial ... ted_States
:alien:
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:52 pm
I used the map of global debt you shared above. It shows Japanese debt at 261% :?
Yes. but as i posted, Japan has govt assets that offset that debt, such as $1 trillion US govt bonds plus whatever is written in this article.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:06 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:52 pm
I used the map of global debt you shared above. It shows Japanese debt at 261% :?
Yes. but as i posted, Japan has govt assets that offset that debt, such as $1 trillion US govt bonds plus whatever is written in this article.

I got your point. US has an asset too .. an unmatched one. Every person who does not live in Europe or Australia or Canada wants to migrate to USA.

Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google and Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft could have migrated anywhere in the world from India with their skill set. But they migrated to USA. Elon Musk from South Africa does not build Tesla cars or SpaceX rockets in Germany even though its Debt-GDP ratio is 68%.

Confidence of the whole world that USA is still the most powerful economy, still the most powerful country and can sustain that status in foreseeable future (say two decades) is the largest asset that there can be.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DooDoot » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:51 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Every person who does not live in Europe or Australia or Canada wants to migrate to USA.
You sound Indian. Are you from India? When I was young, I left Australia & found & lived in Asia studying Buddhism. If not for certain circumstances, I would definitely prefer to live in Asia, such as Thailand or Sri Lanka; even in Muslim Malaysia or Indonesia. I notice on these forums how Sri Lankans often embrace Western ideals & ideas, including about Buddhism & Cultural Marxism, as though Sri Lanka is inferior.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google and Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft could have migrated anywhere in the world from India with their skill set. But they migrated to USA. Elon Musk from South Africa does not build Tesla cars or SpaceX rockets in Germany even though its Debt-GDP ratio is 68%.
I think the above is getting further away from Buddhism. Obviously, they were motivated by greed. Google & Microsoft are allegedly spying on us. Musk has lots of ideas that are often funded by the US corporate-socialist government. Maybe the German govt won't give Musk a handout. Also, possibly the German car companies are by nature innovative & do not need Musk.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Confidence of the whole world that USA is still the most powerful economy, still the most powerful country and can sustain that status in foreseeable future (say two decades) is the largest asset that there can be.
Two decades or 1/4 of a single Buddhist lifetime; like in the Days of Noah; before the flood. :roll:
Bhikkhus, there are these four floods. What four? The flood of sensuality, the flood of existence, the flood of views, the flood of ignorance. These are the four floods. This Noble Eightfold Path is to be developed for direct knowledge of these four floods, for the full understanding of them, for their utter destruction, for their abandoning.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn45.171
Its one thing having to live & survive, with economic circumstances controlled by the Capitalist Paranimmita-Vasavatti Deva; so you have some personal economic freedom from the financial slavery. Its another thing to worship this Mara materialism.
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:51 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Every person who does not live in Europe or Australia or Canada wants to migrate to USA.
You sound Indian. Are you from India? When I was young, I left Australia & found & lived in Asia studying Buddhism. If not for certain circumstances, I would definitely prefer to live in Asia, such as Thailand or Sri Lanka; even in Muslim Malaysia or Indonesia. I notice on these forums how Sri Lankans often embrace Western ideals & ideas, including about Buddhism & Cultural Marxism, as though Sri Lanka is inferior.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google and Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft could have migrated anywhere in the world from India with their skill set. But they migrated to USA. Elon Musk from South Africa does not build Tesla cars or SpaceX rockets in Germany even though its Debt-GDP ratio is 68%.
I think the above is getting further away from Buddhism. Obviously, they were motivated by greed. Google & Microsoft are allegedly spying on us. Musk has lots of ideas that are often funded by the US corporate-socialist government.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:21 am
Confidence of the whole world that USA is still the most powerful economy, still the most powerful country and can sustain that status in foreseeable future (say two decades) is the largest asset that there can be.
Two decades or 1/4 of a single Buddhist lifetime; like in the Days of Noah; before the flood. :roll:
Bhikkhus, there are these four floods. What four? The flood of sensuality, the flood of existence, the flood of views, the flood of ignorance. These are the four floods. This Noble Eightfold Path is to be developed for direct knowledge of these four floods, for the full understanding of them, for their utter destruction, for their abandoning.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn45.171
Its one thing having to live & survive, with economic circumstances controlled by the Capitalist Paranimmita-Vasavatti Deva' so you have some personal economic freedom. Its another thing to worship this Mara materialism.
This is News, Current Events section .. the non- Buddhist part of the forum

And let me state .. all very great of Buddha to preach after having been molly coddled for 26 years .. having sex with at least one beautiful woman (his wife) .. and abandoning them (causing them stress .. after all when he abandoned them he did not know he was going to return .. at that moment he acted in a supremely selfish manner)

The guy had choices that 999,999 humans out of 1 million do not have .. he was a true one percenter

Quoting Buddha here will not get you very far .. your own analytical ability will.

And we are discussing strength of US economy ..

Quoting suttas here is quite an useless argument.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DooDoot » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:14 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 am
and let me state .. all very great of Buddha to preach after having been molly coddled for 26 years .. having sex with at least one beautiful woman (his wife) .. and abandoning them (causing them stress)
The suttas appear to show Gotama was not particularly interested in sex. Given the timing of his fatherhood (after 15 years of marriage & immediately prior to leaving home) & given the suttas say his parents (rather than his wife shed tears), the impression is he impregnated his wife to provide an heir for his father. If you are Indian, you should understand that kind of family or clan monkey-business. As for his wife being "beautiful", this is not a Buddhist teaching. Buddhism teaches the non-beautiful (asubha).
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 am
And we are discussing strength of US economy ..
Yes, the perceived strength by two Indians who may have mostly watched Hollywood instead of Bollywood movies. The USA became the world's strongest economy probably due to many factors, such as:

1. Abundant land.

2. Covert colonialism-imperialism.

3. Industrialisation.

4. Protectionism (tariffs).

5. Full employment & relatively high wages for consumption.

The above is diminishing.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:14 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 am
and let me state .. all very great of Buddha to preach after having been molly coddled for 26 years .. having sex with at least one beautiful woman (his wife) .. and abandoning them (causing them stress)
The suttas appear to show Gotama was not particularly interested in sex. Given the timing of his fatherhood (after 15 years of marriage & immediately prior to leaving home) & given the suttas say his parents (rather than his wife shed tears), the impression is he impregnated his wife to provide an heir for his father. If you are Indian, you should understand that kind of family or clan monkey-business. As for his wife being "beautiful", this is not a Buddhist teaching. Buddhism teaches the non-beautiful (asubha).
The suttas describe his sex life? Are they part of EBT or later hagiographies? You are correct .. an heir is usually the end result of sexual intercourse.

And are you positing that to Buddha wishes of his parents was more important than those of his wife .. she could be abandoned but they needed an heir .. that is surprisingly incorrect for a man preaching ethics and morality to so many in his lifetime.

In Indian society under rules of sanyas .. you can abandon your wife and family for spiritual quest but never ever return. That is the price you must pay for causing them grief. He was back in a decade .. hugging his kid.

Mahavira was also Kshatriya .. also a prince .. at same time .. but never returned to see his daughter Priyadarshana.

Edit Add - this above is my one sticking point about Buddha's morality and ethics in his personal life .. rules never applied to him .. but to everyone else. This does not mean I doubt his wisdom or greatness in any way.

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perkele
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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by perkele » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:58 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
The suttas describe his sex life? Are they part of EBT or later hagiographies?
No, but if his wife only got pregnant after 15 years of marriage, then it seems likely they wouldn't have had a very wild sex life before that.
In Indian society under rules of sanyas .. you can abandon your wife and family but never ever return
The Buddha did not return.
.. that is the only way in which this bad Kamma can be extinguished .. not as Buddha did .. back in a decade and hugging his kid
Bad kamma? I think your judgment is very wrong. "Hugging his kid"? No. He returned to Kapilavatthu only after a very long time, only after almost pleading invitations, his old father wanting to see him once more. After travelling and teaching around the country for so many years it seems he actively avoided returning "home" this whole time, not wanting to get caught up in old bonds or binding others inappropriately. (Don't know if this has to do with that "sanyas" - I had never heard of that. It seems plausible.) He ordained his son after his wife asked for his inheritance. That was the inheritance. That's all. (A rule against ordaining minors against the consent of their parents was established afterwards, but I think Yasodhara did not actually protest. I may be wrong. But later she ordained as well and became an arahat. It was Suddodhana whose objections led to such a rule, which did however, only apply after its instatement, as all the other monastic rules.)
I am quite shocked to read such statements from you. The bodhisatta left his wife and son behind in wealth and safety, to go on the noble search. There was no harm in his actions, no ill-will and no carelessness or whatever you insinuate. And this search was more important than anything else.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
Edit Add - this above is my one sticking point about Buddha's morality and ethics in his personal life .. rules never applied to him .. but to everyone else. This does not mean I doubt his wisdom or greatness in any way.

:namaste:
How does this fit together? These are grave accusations, and a grave error in judgment if you ask me. About the things you described as immoral he did not set up any rules or standards for anyone. And I don't see anything immoral in his actions.
There may be monastic rules in the sangha which applied to others but not him (thinking about miracles here, nothing else comes to mind - I don't know whether he followed that rule after forbidding his monks to display miracles). I cannot see fault with those either. He was the leader of the herd. A leader who is showing the way needs more freedom and autonomy to be able to do so.
Last edited by perkele on Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:02 am

perkele wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:58 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
The suttas describe his sex life? Are they part of EBT or later hagiographies?
No, but if his wife only got pregnant after 15 years of marriage, then it seems likely they wouldn't have had a very wild sex life before that.
Speculation
perkele wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:58 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
In Indian society under rules of sanyas .. you can abandon your wife and family but never ever return
The Buddha did not return.
Yes he did
How does this fit together? These are grave accusations, and a grave error in judgment if you ask me. About the things you described as immoral he did not set up any rules or standards for anyone. And I don't see anything immoral in his actions.
There may be monastic rules in the sangha which applied to others but not him (thinking about miracles here, nothing else comes to mind - I don't know whether he followed that rule after forbidding his monks to display miracles). I cannot see fault with those either. He was the leader of the herd. A leader who is showing the way needs more freedom and autonomy to be able to do so.
I accept his wisdom but reject his some of his actions as a person. A disciple cannot be displeased by some aspects of a teacher's life?

What is this North Korea?

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by perkele » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:20 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:02 am
perkele wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:58 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
In Indian society under rules of sanyas .. you can abandon your wife and family but never ever return
The Buddha did not return.
Yes he did
I edited my post while you were writing and went into some more detail. He did not "return" in the way you insinuate. This is simply untruthful.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
I accept his wisdom but reject his some of his actions as a person. A disciple cannot be displeased by some aspects of a teacher's life?

What is this North Korea?

:namaste:
I have nothing against you but I find your lack of faith disturbing. And I cannot question how this can fit together with still "accepting his wisdom" if I don't understand it at all? What is this? India? :rolleye:

No, seriously, I cannot see how this can fit together. The noble search was the most important, the most praiseworthy thing the bodhisatta had to do, to find the way out of samsara not only for himself, but for everyone who was able to follow. I cannot see the slightest selfishness in this. And if I did, this would not fit together with "accepting his wisdom". In my eyes it is the most heroic of all acts. That is all. I don't understand your perspective. So I am expressing my shock and surprise.

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by DooDoot » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:26 am

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
And are you positing that to Buddha wishes of his parents was more important than those of his wife ..
In the ruling classes, both in India & elsewhere, wives were generally regarded as bearers of heirs. Have you ever heard of Henry VIII, who executed some wives & then created a schism in the Church, all over bearing an heir to the throne?
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
she could be abandoned but they needed an heir .. that is surprisingly incorrect for a man preaching ethics and morality to so many in his lifetime.
Gotama was not enlightened when he left his wife. Regardless, many arahants left their wives. Even Jesus Christ said it is good to leave your wife & family for the deathless. Regardless, the wife lived in a clan, probably with lots of ladies to gossip with & children to look after. I doubt the Western nuclear family existed in India 2,600 years ago.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
In Indian society under rules of sanyas .. you can abandon your wife and family for spiritual quest but never ever return. That is the price you must pay for causing them grief. He was back in a decade .. hugging his kid.
His kid became an arahant. The Buddha was not a Hindu. Buddha is not judged on the standards of Hinduism.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
Mahavira was also Kshatriya .. also a prince .. at same time .. but never returned to see his daughter Priyadarshana.
Yes, but Mahavira was possibly a puthujjana.
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:20 am
Edit Add - this above is my one sticking point about Buddha's morality and ethics in his personal life .. rules never applied to him .. but to everyone else. This does not mean I doubt his wisdom or greatness in any way.
The Buddha followed his enlightened ethical rules rather than the ideas of Brahma or Krisha. The Buddha gave the greatest gift to his son, despite the objections of his father. His wives supposedly also became an arahant.
perkele wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:20 am
The noble search was the most important, the most praiseworthy thing the bodhisatta had to do, to find the way out of samsara not only for himself, but for everyone who was able to follow. I cannot see the slightest selfishness in this.
:anjali:

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Re: Largest one day drop in U.S. stock market - in history

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:35 am

perkele wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:20 am
I have nothing against you but I find your lack of faith disturbing. And I cannot question how this can fit together with still "accepting his wisdom" if I don't understand it at all? What is this? India? :rolleye:

No, seriously, I cannot see how this can fit together. The noble search was the most important, the most praiseworthy thing the bodhisatta had to do, to find the way out of samsara not only for himself, but for everyone who was able to follow. I cannot see the slightest selfishness in this. And if I did, this would not fit together with "accepting his wisdom". In my eyes it is the most heroic of all acts. That is all. I don't understand your perspective. So I am expressing my shock and surprise.
Sorry to disappoint you.

Churchill was an admirable leader but an abominable racist .. Kennedy was a brilliant statesman but a sex addict.

Great men may have an aspect to their life that some find questionable .. we are philosophers not cult members.

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
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