Trump - One Year

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:50 am

Greetings,
chownah wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:39 am
When people think of the steele dossier they primarily think about the salacious parts. It seems that not all of the dossier was presented to the FISA court and only the parts of the dossier which related to carter page were included and that at least some of those parts were corroborated.
In recent weeks it's become increasingly apparent that Carter Page actually worked for intelligence agencies from 2013-2016, in order to entrap Russian spies. Whether it was opportunism from an FBI who turned on him, or whether he was a deliberate plant within the Trump campaign remains unclear at this point. (Manafort and Papadopoulos almost certainly were plants, based on their connections to the Podesta Group and the Clinton State Department respectively). Page cannot publicly say any of this of course (which is why it's not common knowledge) as he's bound by non-disclosure agreements with the FBI, but he's been allowed a reprieve from the NDA to present his case to the formal committees.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:51 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm
Greetings Chownah,

This link may help in understanding the situation regarding Steele..

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dossi ... le/2648099

Metta,
Paul. :)
I've taken a first look at the article and will perhaps be examining it more closely. So far it seems like alot of churn. No time line at all on the events it mentions for example....and it doesn't really paint a complete picture of anything of substance that I have seen so far...mostly just bits and pieces of what could be fairly disconnected events woven together in a big conspiracy theory. I have not ruled out the possibility of conspiracy but this article does very little to substantiate one....if just sort of inspires one to think that one is possible.

Also, it doesn't say anything to fill in my questions about the generation of the dossier....although I did just see (and posted above) a video which claims that only parts of the dossier were used in the fisa application and that at least some of those parts which were used were corroborated....I'm not sure if all of the parts used were corroborated.

Also, has anyone mentioned that the evidence given to fisa actually did contain a footnote which notified fisa that the dossier was produced by a political entity so contrary to what many memo supporters have claimed there was a heads up on the possibility of political bias in the writing of the memos....but then it seems that some or perhaps all of it was coroborated any way.
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:17 am
Greetings,

Ironically, it's Trevor Noah who is part of what could more rightly be called the "propaganda machine", but that will all come to show itself in due course.

In the meantime, a memo by the Senate Judiciary (aka the Grassley memo) has been released in a slightly less redacted form today, shedding further light on the relationships between Clinton's associates, Steele, Fusion GPS, the FBI and the FISA Court.

It comes today in a slightly less redacted manner as it was argued that aspects of the Grassley memo were no longer confidential, since they had already been made public via the declassified Nunes memo.

Again, well worth a read.

In summary, it's not the "propaganda machine" that the corrupt individuals need to be concerned about, it's this gentleman.

Metta,
Paul. :)
You have really bought into this conspiracy theory. This is understandable in that it would take a pretty big fantasy to explain why nunes wrote such a dumbass memo and how it has been promoted in such a horse's ass sort of way....there really isn't any other way to deal with the memo other than expanding the conspiracy theory.

chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 am

Greetings,

More on Carter Page's FBI connections here... (Twitter thread with included links)



Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:01 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:50 am
Greetings,
chownah wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:39 am
When people think of the steele dossier they primarily think about the salacious parts. It seems that not all of the dossier was presented to the FISA court and only the parts of the dossier which related to carter page were included and that at least some of those parts were corroborated.
In recent weeks it's become increasingly apparent that Carter Page actually worked for intelligence agencies from 2013-2015, in order to entrap Russian spies. Whether it was opportunism from an FBI who turned on him, or whether he was a deliberate plant within the Trump campaign remains unclear at this point. (Manafort and Papadopoulos almost certainly were plants, based on their connections to the Podesta Group and the Clinton State Department respectively). Page cannot publicly say any of this of course (which is why it's not common knowledge) as he's bound by non-disclosure agreements with the FBI, but he's been allowed a reprieve from the NDA to present his case to the formal committees.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Nothing is substantiated here....just more churn....
Does pubicly presenting this churn help in showing the case for conspiracy?....I don't think so. If this stuff is real then all the churn will not help bring it out and it will either come out or not regardless of the churn.
Does publicly presenting this churn in helping trump fight against the mueller investigation?...trump seems to think so...he uses every drop of this churn that he is able to use.
Seems there is no advantage to the churn....only disadvantage....
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:10 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:56 am
Greetings,

More on Carter Page's FBI connections here... (Twitter thread with included links)



Metta,
Paul. :)
Twitter!....it has finally come down to twitter! The truth about a conspiracy is now coming from twitter?!
The conservativetreehouse? You must be kidding. I highly recommend everyone NOT fall for the clickbait unless you want to support that site.....I don't know anything about that site but the name alone says enough for me to stay away.

If there is something credible on that site please bring it here as I'm not going there and taking the chance of supporting some right wing fantasy site. The last time I took your advise and went to a site given your recommendation it was to go look at hannity on fox news and it was a total waste of time in that it was just as idiotic as I thought it would be given my previous exposure to hannity's idiocy....a total waste of time and I'm sorry that my going there and clicking on several of his presentations helped to support his fud filled fantasy world.
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:12 am

Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:01 am
Does pubicly presenting this churn help in showing the case for conspiracy?
The public don't need iron clad grounds for conspiracy, as the final decision on these matters will not be adjudicated within the public domain.

However, the public as a whole will need to adjust and adapt to the reality that faces them, once these matters are adjudicated, and it may take some time (possibly years) for it all to play out. What many people have been led to believe about government and certain individuals and departments, and the reality of what actually transpired are likely to be very different. You hear a lot in American politics about the 1st and 2nd amendments, but I suspect you're increasingly going to be hearing about the 4th as well from now on.

In my opinion, what you call "churn" would be better understood as laying the preliminary social groundwork for what is to come, through the official investigations. You can bet that most people, who source their news passively from the mainstream media, have only been aware of the "Russia!" investigation to date. Much of this will be totally new to them, so when dealing with a potential mass event of cognitive dissonance, it's best for social cohesion that the revelations of the truth not come as a total shock, lest it give rise to civil unrest.

Enjoy...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by pulga » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:22 am

Inspector General Horowitz's report that is expected to be made public next month is likely to be a bombshell.

“A Political Boon to the President”: Will the Inspector General’s Report Do What Nunes Couldn’t?

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:31 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:12 am
Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:01 am
Does pubicly presenting this churn help in showing the case for conspiracy?
The public don't need iron clad grounds for conspiracy, as the final decision on these matters will not be adjudicated within the public domain.

However, the public as a whole will need to adjust and adapt to the reality that faces them, once these matters are adjudicated, and it may take some time (possibly years) for it all to play out. What many people have been led to believe about government and certain individuals and departments, and the reality of what actually transpired are likely to be very different. You hear a lot in American politics about the 1st and 2nd amendments, but I suspect you're increasingly going to be hearing about the 4th as well from now on.

In my opinion, what you call "churn" would be better understood as laying the preliminary social groundwork for what is to come, through the official investigations. You can bet that most people, who source their news passively from the mainstream media, have only been aware of the "Russia!" investigation to date. Much of this will be totally new to them, so when dealing with a potential mass event of cognitive dissonance, it's best for social cohesion that the revelations of the truth not come as a total shock, lest it give rise to civil unrest.

Enjoy...

Metta,
Paul. :)
More churn....conspiracy theory end game fantasy...."a potential mass event of cognitive dissonance" sounds alot like most people's attempts at understanding why there is such a horse's ass being the president.....remember the Who, "we won't get fooled again"....well guess what..........

Sounds like you think that trump has some great goal in mind. When has trump demonstrated that he has some great goal other than helping himself first, his family second, and his rich friends third?
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:34 am

chownah wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:07 am
I just watched a video of Trevor Noah on The Daily Show and he said something so simply which I think explains alot about what is going on that I thought I'd just bring it here:
"The republicans don't need credible to advance their narrative; all nunes has to say is that he has something important and damning and the propoganda machine will do the rest."

chownah
Here's a video which supports this statement that noah made:
Fake news sharing in US is a rightwing thing, says study
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -of-oxford
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:51 am

Greetings,
Chownah wrote:Sounds like you think that trump has some great goal in mind.
Well, yes, to Drain The Swamp in Washington DC.

And to Lock Her Up. ;)

... but all by the book, in stark contrast to what preceded all this.

But that aside, consider that as these shenanigans were afoot in the DOJ, FBI, State Department etc. not everyone who was aware of them would have passively accepted or been complicit in the malfeasance. They just needed someone to instigate the chain of events which would enable the malfeasance to be exposed.

Enter, General Kelly...

:spy:
Chownah wrote:When has trump demonstrated that he has some great goal other than helping himself first, his family second, and his rich friends third?
If that's how you regard this, then all I can do is point you to my earlier cautionary note about cognitive dissonance. I don't intend to be anyone's punching bag as they work through the process. Simply take or leave what I say as a "hot tip". I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything (for what would that achieve?) but I'm willing to share possible lines of enquiry with anyone who might be open to considering them.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:20 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:51 am

Chownah wrote:When has trump demonstrated that he has some great goal other than helping himself first, his family second, and his rich friends third?
If that's how you regard this, then all I can do is point you to my earlier cautionary note about cognitive dissonance. I don't intend to be anyone's punching bag as they work through the process. Simply take or leave what I say as a "hot tip". I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything (for what would that achieve?) but I'm willing to share possible lines of enquiry with anyone who might be open to considering them.

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I hope you see that the question I posed and which you quoted above is in fact a possible line of enquiry. It is a simple line of enquiry. To clarify it: look at trumps life from beginning until the start of the primary campaigning. When in his life did he ever do to demonstrate that he had some goal other than helping himself first, his family second, and his rich friends third? I guess you are not interested in the line of enquiry because it doesn't seem like there is much there which supports the narrative you are promoting.
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:39 am

Greetings Chownah,

It's simply incongruous with actual events, IMO.

But if you wish to attribute such motives, I am not going to stop you, and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with you about it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
Posts: 7474
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Trump - One Year

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:28 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:39 am
Greetings Chownah,

It's simply incongruous with actual events, IMO.

But if you wish to attribute such motives, I am not going to stop you, and I'm certainly not going to bother arguing with you about it.

Metta,
Paul. :)
First of all I am not attributing motives...I am looking for motives...and having looked at trumps life and questioning what could be motivating him what seems to be notable is that he seems to do everything to benefit himself first, his family second, and his rich friends third.....with damn little be done to benefit anyone else. If you or anyone else can bring something which might be interpreted otherwise I would be glad to see it.....but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. Just one example is the trump run foundation....if I remember it never had a very large amount of money and most if not all of did not come from trump or his family but other people and the money was often spent for thing that benefitted trump himself....a large portrait comes to mind...I would be glad if people brought references to how his foundation functioned....I'd be glad to be shown that I am wrong.
I could add a paragraph on his litigious past and how this is exactly how he is running his administration but perhaps I will present this another time....anyone else feel free to jump right in on this issue.
Anyway, the idea is that if someone goes through life using pretty much the same value system for many decades then it seems a bit suspect if it seems that they have drastically changed in a short period of time....and it seems natural that one might look closely to see if the change is real or feigned.....one might look for a motive to make a real change and one might look for a motive to feign change.
I think that your idea that it is incongruous with current events means that you have already determined what you think his motives really are....I say this because I can imagine a motive which is completely consistent with his actions now and his previous actions.....and, heck, let me not equiviocate, I think I know what his motivations are....so I will share it with you but I want you to unederstand that this is conjecture....how could I really know his motivations....and how could you:

Trump doesn't want to be president.....he never wanted to be president. Trump wants to be a "king maker". Perhaps the term should be modified to that he wants to be a "president maker"....or more simply he wants to be a high power "power broker". Trumps plan is to create a population of voters who will not question his stance on things but will back him no matter what. The first hint of this was in the repub primary election when he said something like "I could stand in the middle of the street and kill someone and they would still vote for me". This is what he wants to cultivate. He didn't want to be president but he is taking full advantage of the opportunity to "harden" his "troops". He says outlandish things, he lies obvious lies, he lies subtle lies, he says politically incorrect things which resonate in the hearts of his troops, he plays a race card, he insults, he plays to people's baser impulses and ignorance. All of this makes his troops love him more, they know he can't be bought. What they don't see is that they are the ones who are being bought....and bought very cheaply.
Anyway the presidency is being managed so that if he wins he wins and if he looses he wins. If he can effect changes in the tax codes which benefits him, his family, and his rich friends then he wins. If congress didn't pass the tax changes then it was congress who wouldn't do it and he would bash congress for not doing this and his troops just eat it up. Let's talk about the ultimate coup....removal from office. If trump does things which would allow his removal from office and he is not removed then he wins; if he does things and he is removed from office then he will be a victim, a martyr, crucified by the "deep state"...and his troops will love it.

Trump is creating a hard core of followers that will mindlessly vote whatever way he says. It is looking like there is about 20% (perhaps more) of the voters who fit into this category I think. With a die hard dedicated 20% of the electorate answereing to his beck and call he will be a formidable political power in american politics as long as he can hold it together.....and also just think about vast chain of trump motels and think about where that 20% of the voters will be staying whenever they travel...on vacation...or to trump rallies....think about steak houses....think about fashion. It is going to be good times for the trump brand.
chownah

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Re: Trump - One Year

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:31 pm

:goodpost:
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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