Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

If you wish to raise new topics on News, Current Events & Politics, please do so at Dhamma Wheel Engaged.
User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2312
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:06 am

Regardless of the truth of such claims, i am not sure how raising them is beneficial, or how attempting to humiliate a president of a country would help to move things into the right direction.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by lyndon taylor » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:11 am

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:06 am
Regardless of the truth of such claims, i am not sure how raising them is beneficial, or how attempting to humiliate a president of a country would help to move things into the right direction.
The truth will set you free, wouldn't you rather know the truth than believe the lies??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

chownah
Posts: 8263
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:01 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:06 am
Regardless of the truth of such claims, i am not sure how raising them is beneficial, or how attempting to humiliate a president of a country would help to move things into the right direction.
If what is written is truthful then I don't see how printing the truth would not be beneficial.

Also, have you read some of the other political articles written by wolff? I brought some links above and I'll put them here again. He really does seem to be able to write from a non-partisan position or at least that's the impression I get from having read just a bit of his other stuff:
http://nymag.com/author/Michael%20Wolff/
I read large parts of two of his articles those being:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/politics/ ... ures/3918/
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/media/col ... alife/153/
I'm not trying to drag this thread off topic but I was surprised that the author seems to view be able to comment on thing political from a seemingly non-partisan perspective.
chownah

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2312
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:11 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:11 am
The truth will set you free, wouldn't you rather know the truth than believe the lies??
chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:01 pm
If what is written is truthful then I don't see how printing the truth would not be beneficial.
From your input, you are using the word "truth" in the sense that what is written in the book corresponds to events that took place in the real world, and you both concluded that this will necessarily be beneficial.

However, from a Buddhist perspective, the above is one of the most important criteria determining right speech, but it is not the only one:
"And how is one made pure in four ways by verbal action?

"There is the case where a certain person, abandoning false speech, abstains from false speech. When he has been called to a town meeting, a group meeting, a gathering of his relatives, his guild, or of the royalty, if he is asked as a witness, 'Come & tell, good man, what you know': If he doesn't know, he says, 'I don't know.' If he does know, he says, 'I know.' If he hasn't seen, he says, 'I haven't seen.' If he has seen, he says, 'I have seen.' Thus he doesn't consciously tell a lie for his own sake, for the sake of another, or for the sake of any reward. Abandoning false speech, he abstains from false speech. He speaks the truth, holds to the truth, is firm, reliable, no deceiver of the world.

"Abandoning divisive speech he abstains from divisive speech. What he has heard here he does not tell there to break those people apart from these people here. What he has heard there he does not tell here to break these people apart from those people there. Thus reconciling those who have broken apart or cementing those who are united, he loves concord, delights in concord, enjoys concord, speaks things that create concord.

"Abandoning abusive speech, he abstains from abusive speech. He speaks words that are soothing to the ear, that are affectionate, that go to the heart, that are polite, appealing & pleasing to people at large.

"Abandoning idle chatter, he abstains from idle chatter. He speaks in season, speaks what is factual, what is in accordance with the goal, the Dhamma, & the Vinaya. He speaks words worth treasuring, seasonable, reasonable, circumscribed, connected with the goal
.
"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."
The Buddha's emphasized on speaking the truth, but did not stop there. Imagine you speak publicly about a particular flaw or shortcoming in my character because you have issues with me. While you did not lie, does that make you a truthful person? If you were truthful, you would ask yourself few questions such as: why did not you speak with me in private instead of embarrassing me publicly? or you would have reflected if speaking publicly would help me improve my behavior or would make me more defiant? or you might want to question your intentions if your action (speaking publicly) is driven by truthfulness and inner integrity or seeking to impress and make money?

It is easy to see how the term "truth" can serve to mislead.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

chownah
Posts: 8263
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:28 pm

Bundokji,
You start with:
From your input, you are using the word "truth" in the sense that what is written in the book corresponds to events that took place in the real world, and you both concluded that this will necessarily be beneficial.
THis seems really theoretic. No need to be so theoretic....It seems that you are failing to actually take a look at what is in the book and make a statement about that. It sounds like you are saying that not all truths when expressed are beneficial.....I won't dispute that.....but.....this is not some theoretic situation....there is a book...its already existing content is what I am talking about.

My view is that if what is written in the book is true then it is a matter of great public interest and even international concern that the issues raise be dealt with or at least analyzed and considered........perhaps you are not aware of what is written in the book.

I want to stress that I am not saying that what is written is true.....but then I am not saying that it is false either.....but I think that some of the issues raised are of great importance.
chownah
edit: I just realized that my view on this is not entirely captured in what I have been saying. To clarify: I think that there are things in the book which if they are true will not be beneficial by being made public....but there are things which if true would be beneficial by being made public.
chownah

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 2312
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Bundokji » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:06 pm

chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:28 pm
Bundokji,
You start with:
From your input, you are using the word "truth" in the sense that what is written in the book corresponds to events that took place in the real world, and you both concluded that this will necessarily be beneficial.
THis seems really theoretic. No need to be so theoretic....It seems that you are failing to actually take a look at what is in the book and make a statement about that. It sounds like you are saying that not all truths when expressed are beneficial.....I won't dispute that.....but.....this is not some theoretic situation....there is a book...its already existing content is what I am talking about.

My view is that if what is written in the book is true then it is a matter of great public interest and even international concern that the issues raise be dealt with or at least analyzed and considered........perhaps you are not aware of what is written in the book.

I want to stress that I am not saying that what is written is true.....but then I am not saying that it is false either.....but I think that some of the issues raised are of great importance.
chownah
What i have read was mainly articles on the BBC about the book and the most controversial points included in it. What i noticed is that most of the points are critical of Trump as a person more than discussing policy issues. They are also based on opinions and impressions of people surrounding him such as they did not believe that he was going to win, that his wife cried (not out of joy) when he won the elections, that some of his staff view him as childish, there was also comments/opinions of Bannon about his son's meeting with Russian officials during the elections without the presence of a lawyer which Bannon believes that this is treasonous ...etc

Apart from possible Russian involvement in the elections (which is being investigated) and which is open to many different interpretations as if countries (including the US) don't try to influence policies of other nations, there is nothing useful or based on facts (as opposite to opinions) from what i have read.

We, as human beings, are vulnerable to suggestions. What we view as important and relevant, or the opposite, is driven to a large extent by how the content is presented to us. For example, how the news is ranked or organized on a website or a newspaper gives us the impression that a particular story is so important (the size of the words, the font, the cunning use of certain words that appeals to emotions more than reason ...etc)

The abovementioned approach by news agencies corrupted the public mind in my opinion. The main focus becomes excitement rather than rational reporting of policy issues. This created a reaction on the opposite direction in the sense that people defended the person as reaction to attacks on him as a person. The least concern of everyone, it seems to me, are policy issues, and even when they are discussed, they are often used as a disguise to attack or defend the person. Trump has created for himself a personality cult and those who hate him fall for it more than those who support him in my opinion.

More generally, respecting the ruler is not a virtue that is valued in the west, all in the name of democracy. I think avoiding personal attacks on a president would help make criticism of his policies more effective as this would strip him from using personal attacks as an excuse to justify wrong policies.

Also in history, we can see evidence of how personal attacks against presidents influenced their policies in ways that created more suffering. It is widely believed that Bill Clinton's Scandal with Monica Lewinsky was a major contributing factor of Rocket attacks against Iraq at that time to deviate the public attention from the personal affair. At the end of the day, presidents are human beings.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 21636
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:09 pm

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:29 am
Just out of curiosity, Retro, do you have the same positive feelings for Malcolm Turnbull or Tony Abbott that you have for Trump, who is your favourite?? I can't help but wonder if you actually lived in the USA if your positive take on Trump might be less so??
Turnbull is a bit of a nothing man, and nothing happens on his watch. I don't mind that actually, because it's better than things going in the wrong direction, which would be the case if Labour was in.

I didn't much like Tony Abbott at the time, and don't think he was a particularly competent Prime Minister, but in retrospect, he did help to forestall the arrival of some of the SJW cultural madness to Australian shores, so for proving that barrier for a period of time, I thank him.

That said, neither man is one-sixteenth of the man that GEOTE is, and neither is as adept at WINNING!!!

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

pulga
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by pulga » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:21 pm

This appears to be a fairly balanced article from Politico:

Journalists scrutinize Michael Wolff's credibility

With the economy doing well and with more pressing problems facing the country, President Trump ought to just weather the storm with as much constraint as he can muster. It'll pass.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:27 pm

Although I agreed entirely with Chownah's earlier assertions about Wolff's impartiality regarding the political allegiances of those he attacks, he is now starting to look rather more partisan:
Wolff spoke to the BBC. He said: “I think one of the interesting effects of the book so far is a very clear ‘emperor has no clothes’ effect.”

He added: “The story that I have told seems to present this presidency in such a way that it says he can’t do his job.

“Suddenly everywhere people are going: ‘Oh my God, it’s true, he has no clothes.’ That’s the background to the perception and the understanding that will finally end … this presidency.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... hael-wolff

chownah
Posts: 8263
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:27 pm
Although I agreed entirely with Chownah's earlier assertions about Wolff's impartiality regarding the political allegiances of those he attacks, he is now starting to look rather more partisan:
Wolff spoke to the BBC. He said: “I think one of the interesting effects of the book so far is a very clear ‘emperor has no clothes’ effect.”

He added: “The story that I have told seems to present this presidency in such a way that it says he can’t do his job.

“Suddenly everywhere people are going: ‘Oh my God, it’s true, he has no clothes.’ That’s the background to the perception and the understanding that will finally end … this presidency.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... hael-wolff
If thinking that a president should be removed from office is always and invariably a partisan position then obvoiusly wolff would be deemed "partisan".

It could be that wolff thinks that the president is incompetent and should be removed from office and that it has nothing to do with the president's political motivations....in my view this is not a partisan position.....other people might weaponise it and raise a partisan issue.....
chownah

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by No_Mind » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:49 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:27 pm
Although I agreed entirely with Chownah's earlier assertions about Wolff's impartiality regarding the political allegiances of those he attacks, he is now starting to look rather more partisan:
All that is relevant is - Bannon has said on record that ..
a) "The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor -- with no lawyers. They didn't have any lawyers," Bannon continued, according to the Guardian. "Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad s***, and I happen to think it's all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately."

b) "You realize where this is going ... This is all about money laundering. Mueller chose (senior prosecutor Andrew) Weissmann first and he is a money-laundering guy," Bannon reportedly said. "Their path to f***ing Trump goes right through Paul Manafort, Don Jr., and Jared Kushner ... It's as plain as a hair on your face."
source CNN
The very fact that Bannon .. who was often whispered to be almost as powerful as the President .. has not denied these comments shows how much trouble Trump is in.

It does not really matter if Wolff is partisan. He is just the messenger. It is the message that we must look at. The message is Trump is in serious trouble.

Imagine what Steve Bannon would have to tell when called as witness by Mueller.

:namaste:

No_Mind
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:20 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:48 am

If thinking that a president should be removed from office is always and invariably a partisan position then obvoiusly wolff would be deemed "partisan".

It could be that wolff thinks that the president is incompetent and should be removed from office and that it has nothing to do with the president's political motivations....in my view this is not a partisan position.....other people might weaponise it and raise a partisan issue.....
chownah
This is largely a matter of semantics. I think the meaning of "partisan", and Wolff's allegiances, are less important here than what he is up to - which seems to be a deliberate attempt to discredit Trump on a number of issues. He is doing quite well on this, particularly in that he is to some extent using Trump's own tactics, and he stands to make a lot of money out of it. I think most of his claims seem to be eminently contestable, however, and it will be interesting to see which way it develops.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 5589
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:27 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:49 am

It does not really matter if Wolff is partisan. He is just the messenger. It is the message that we must look at. The message is Trump is in serious trouble.

Imagine what Steve Bannon would have to tell when called as witness by Mueller.

:namaste:

No_Mind
Maybe. If the messenger is completely discredited, then people might stop being concerned about the message. We are already seeing denials elsewhere, and people might think that Bannon has reasons for being less than honest. I don't think many people really know what is going on yet, which is why for me the main interest is political journalism and the public response, rather than a constitutional one.

chownah
Posts: 8263
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:58 am

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:06 pm

Apart from possible Russian involvement in the elections (which is being investigated) and which is open to many different interpretations as if countries (including the US) don't try to influence policies of other nations, there is nothing useful or based on facts (as opposite to opinions) from what i have read.
My view is that it is wrong to let you or me or anyone else decide for voters what is useful for them to know concerning a candidate or his associates.....so I guess I'm saying it is inappropriate for you to state that there is nothing useful in the book unless you qualify this by saying that there is nothing in the book that you find useful FOR YOU.

As to what the voters find useful......isn't that what freedom of speech is all about?....you let the voters hear everything (in theory just everything that is the truth but that is difficult to monitor) and let them each sort out what they find useful.
chownah

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by No_Mind » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:05 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:27 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:49 am

It does not really matter if Wolff is partisan. He is just the messenger. It is the message that we must look at. The message is Trump is in serious trouble.

Imagine what Steve Bannon would have to tell when called as witness by Mueller.

:namaste:

No_Mind
Maybe. If the messenger is completely discredited, then people might stop being concerned about the message. We are already seeing denials elsewhere, and people might think that Bannon has reasons for being less than honest. I don't think many people really know what is going on yet, which is why for me the main interest is political journalism and the public response, rather than a constitutional one.
Bannon gave his opinion (what I quoted) not facts which can be questioned (like X met Y at Z's dinner party and made a deal to sell the blueprints of THAAD missile defense system).

With facts one might say he was not being entirely honest. But negative opinions are always honest (how can a negative opinion be dishonest?)

The second most powerful person in USA between January 20, 2017 – August 18, 2017, thinks Trump is going down. He has burned his bridges with the President .. a very big step to take .. because even from outside the WH a President's friend can ask a lot of favours .. this shows that Bannon is confident that Trump is going down.

Imagine the POTUS was your friend and you burned that bridge .. so you must be very very sure of what you are doing .. one does not spite the POTUS just for the heck of it.

:namaste:

No_MInd
I know one thing: that I know nothing

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests