Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

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chownah
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:45 am

pulga wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:15 am
Tammy Bruce has written a scathing opinion piece on Mr. Wolff and the reception of his book.

Tammy Bruce: 'Fake but important' Trump book proves liberals don't care about the truth
I haven't looked at the link.....and doubt that I will. Why?....because anyone who thinks that this book can "prove" that "liberals" don't care about the "truth" deserves to be ignored....unless they have a knife at your throat. :jumping:
chownah

chownah
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:07 am

Bundokji wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:28 pm
chownah wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:04 pm
Do you think that anyone other than individual voters should decide what things are useful or important for them to know?
No, but i fail to see why this is relevant!

Your question implies, if i am not mistaken, that you perceived my post as a decision on behalf of voters.

If the above interpretation is correct, could you demonstrate where did i decide on behalf of anyone?
You are mistaken. I perceived your post as being descriptive of the book.....and you described it as being:
Apart from possible Russian involvement in the elections (which is being investigated) and which is open to many different interpretations as if countries (including the US) don't try to influence policies of other nations, there is nothing useful or based on facts (as opposite to opinions) from what i have read.
It is excellent that you indicate that your description of the book is based on what you have read which shows that your knowledge of what is in the book is limited. When I read this it seems that you have judged the book by saying "there is nothing useful". You may think that there is adequate context there to show that it is that YOU find no use for what the book contains but if there is then I missed it and still continue to miss it upon re-reading. I am sometimes a careless reader and sometimes/many times/often I do not completely understand what someone has written.....but I think that there are many people who are even more careless in their reading and their understanding and I am sure that many of them will take away from your post that there is nothing useful in the book.

I think that it is important for people to understand that different people find different uses for different things in different contexts....especially when it comes to gov't and politics. I think that it is important for people to be exposed to the idea that no one can define what is useful and what is not for people to know when making decisions about gov't and politics. I am not saying that you disagree with this but only that your post can very easily be taken as expressing that there is nothing useful in the book.....and this is something which should be fully and explicitly contextualized by the disclaimer "useful for me".

I reallly don't want to talk about your post anymore. Your post is not the issue I am raising. Your post just brought to my mind the issue....which is that the book should not be judged by whether any person or group finds any of its contents useful and that this idea flow out of or supports the idea of freedom of speech. America has as a founding principle the idea of freedom of speech and one reason (perhaps the main reason) is that when it comes to gov't or politics different people find different things useful so if you want to encourage the fullest participation in decision making then you must present all that is truthful (of course this is difficult to monitor) and let each individual find in that ocean of truth the things which they find useful.
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Bundokji
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by Bundokji » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:20 am

chownah wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:07 am
It is excellent that you indicate that your description of the book is based on what you have read which shows that your knowledge of what is in the book is limited. When I read this it seems that you have judged the book by saying "there is nothing useful". You may think that there is adequate context there to show that it is that YOU find no use for what the book contains but if there is then I missed it and still continue to miss it upon re-reading. I am sometimes a careless reader and sometimes/many times/often I do not completely understand what someone has written.....but I think that there are many people who are even more careless in their reading and their understanding and I am sure that many of them will take away from your post that there is nothing useful in the book.
Communication through the internet is not easy and it can cause misunderstanding, but i still prefer it to other ways of communications because it allow us more time to formulate our ideas before sharing them with others, and we have the advantage to quote each other to clarify any misunderstandings/disagreements.

Ideally, we communicate to exchange knowledge, and i view knowledge as a process or an exercise (akin to the term "practice" used in Buddhism). Within the limitation of the tool available to us though written communications, which is thoughts, i usually tend to invest time engaging in meaning analysis which might look boring to many discussants. I do it to ensure that I and the people i am engaging with know what we are talking about. For instance, our conversation started with investigating the meaning of truth and how it can be compared/contrasted with the term beneficial. The interrelationship between these terms is important, and related to Buddhism, at least in the way i currently understand it.

I also try to provide enough context to avoid misinterpretations as much as i can. For example, i stated where i got the information about the book from (articles on the BBC). I did not claim to have read the book:
What i have read was mainly articles on the BBC about the book and the most controversial points included in it. What i noticed is that most of the points are critical of Trump as a person more than discussing policy issues. They are also based on opinions and impressions of people surrounding him such as they did not believe that he was going to win, that his wife cried (not out of joy) when he won the elections, that some of his staff view him as childish, there was also comments/opinions of Bannon about his son's meeting with Russian officials during the elections without the presence of a lawyer which Bannon believes that this is treasonous ...etc
The context i chose to present my ideas was an attempt to share what i think of as "knowledge worth knowing and sharing". Sometime, we get influenced by ideas we encounter in our life along the path, the following is one of them:
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt
chownah wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:07 am
I think that it is important for people to understand that different people find different uses for different things in different contexts....especially when it comes to gov't and politics. I think that it is important for people to be exposed to the idea that no one can define what is useful and what is not for people to know when making decisions about gov't and politics. I am not saying that you disagree with this but only that your post can very easily be taken as expressing that there is nothing useful in the book.....and this is something which should be fully and explicitly contextualized by the disclaimer "useful for me".
I also try to approach knowledge in an impersonal way. When we make a statement, of course we are expressing ourselves, but we don't live in a vacuum and we owe others an explanation of why we believe things in a certain way. Your emphasis on adding the words "useful for me" is probably related to your beliefs about freedom, which i also think is different from mine. For example, we had a discussion in the past where you believe that any form of government is necessarily coercive. You might be an anarchist, i don't know, but this might explain your sensitivity and/or over emphasis on how ideas should be presented. I might be wrong though.
chownah wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:07 am
I reallly don't want to talk about your post anymore. Your post is not the issue I am raising. Your post just brought to my mind the issue....which is that the book should not be judged by whether any person or group finds any of its contents useful and that this idea flow out of or supports the idea of freedom of speech. America has as a founding principle the idea of freedom of speech and one reason (perhaps the main reason) is that when it comes to gov't or politics different people find different things useful so if you want to encourage the fullest participation in decision making then you must present all that is truthful (of course this is difficult to monitor) and let each individual find in that ocean of truth the things which they find useful.
The above is not an invitation for you to continue to engage analyzing my post, but my own attempt to explain why i choose to communicate in a certain way. When it comes to free speech, i don't think free always means good. Ideally, we hope people can be free and at the same time responsible, hence my emphasis was not on what was there, but what i found missing (acting responsibly)
Regardless of the truth of such claims, i am not sure how raising them is beneficial, or how attempting to humiliate a president of a country would help to move things into the right direction.
The abovementioned approach by news agencies corrupted the public mind in my opinion. The main focus becomes excitement rather than rational reporting of policy issues
Also in history, we can see evidence of how personal attacks against presidents influenced their policies in ways that created more suffering. It is widely believed that Bill Clinton's Scandal with Monica Lewinsky was a major contributing factor of Rocket attacks against Iraq at that time to deviate the public attention from the personal affair. At the end of the day, presidents are human beings.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

chownah
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:09 am

Bundokji wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:20 am
Regardless of the truth of such claims, i am not sure how raising them is beneficial, or how attempting to humiliate a president of a country would help to move things into the right direction.
This is not a repy to bundokji.
When reading such claims I share the same thoughts as these......then I remember that it is up to each person to regard these claims and for each person to decide if any of what has been claimed is true, important, and/or beneficial.....as well as deciding what is false, unimportant, and/or unbeneficial.....as well as deciding what is detrimental.
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manas
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by manas » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:16 pm

alan wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:44 am
Steve Bannon is a weird dude. He's a Nihilist. He says says things just to get attention. All that is true. But does it mean that everything he says is a lie? I don't know. What he says in this article rings true to me.
There is a new book coming out, from a respected journalist. Quotes Bannon extensively, and also some new reporting which I think everyone should read.
Because if the reality if half this bad, we should all be worried. You guys know I am anti-Trump. But I will never report fake news. Read this excerpt from the book, and then tell me why you are not afraid, and do not hate Trump.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... trump.html
I understand your concern alan, but the trouble is, between Trump and Bannon, I can't figure out who I trust less...

metta
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by manas » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:33 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:46 am
What I have observed in life is how evil people collude together for mutual interests then nastily stab each other in the back at later times.
If it suits their interests, that's the general course of events.

Image

"See, everyone? We've signed a non-aggression pact. We're friends now!"
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

alan
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by alan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:00 am

This book just shows what everyone who has been paying attention already knows--and what I have been saying all along.Trump is a God Dam Crazy Man.
But, No Collusion! Yeah, sure. Say that 20,000 more times, you God Dam Crazy Man. Time is running out. And I will be proven right.

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:02 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:00 am
This book just shows what everyone who has been paying attention already knows--and what I have been saying all along.Trump is a God Dam Crazy Man.
But, No Collusion! Yeah, sure. Say that 20,000 more times, you God Dam Crazy Man. Time is running out. And I will be proven right.
Ha, ha... OK... just like the Pee Pee dossier that turned out to be nothing but Poo Poo.

:D

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by alan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:23 am

Just look at this Sh*tbrain loser. Pathetic! People like this make me sick. God Dam liars! What kind of person goes on TV and lies like this? Answer: Disgusting, low life sh*theads.
Jake cuts him off. Good for him.

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by alan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:28 am

Hey Retro,
Bet you the dossier turns out to be true. And I'll bet Trump is guilty, and will be proven so.
If I'm wrong, I'll fly out to Aussie and shout you a beer.

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:23 am
Jake cuts him off. Good for him.
I'm not sure of how a host silencing an invited guest is cause for applause, but then, the suppression of opposing viewpoints is a popular past-time in
certain quarters.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by chownah » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:43 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 am
Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:23 am
Jake cuts him off. Good for him.
I'm not sure of how a host silencing an invited guest is cause for applause, but then, the suppression of opposing viewpoints is an popular past-time in
certain quarters.

Metta,
Paul. :)
The guest was disruptive of the conversation. After given some time to wander off and avoid answering the point of discussion he seems to have forgotten how to focus on being in a room with another person having a discussion......seems like he got lost in his own private echo chamber. He was giving a monologue, not participating in a dialogue.

I've seen this guy before. This is his entire act. Trump loves it. Trump hires people with these skills.....kellyanne comes to mind and gorka....and this guy. The ploy is to shut down any discussion about trump et al because if people actually discuss trump et al in a meaningful way it will not increase trump's political base.

There are people on the left who do the same thing....and you, retrofuturist will bash them until the cows come home and try to make people believe that the entirety of the left is acting the same.

Retrofuturist, you are pimping for your political position.....it is not subtle....
chownah

edit: the tactic is dissruption of meaningful political discussion....it is a hindrance for free speech.
chownah

alan
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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by alan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:49 am

He was just spouting Bulls*t. To Hell with that guy.
Such obvious, absolute, complete Bulls*t!
Jake was right to cut him off. Because total, absolute, complete Bulls*t pisses me off. There is no reason to allow garbage like this to proliferate. Good for Jake, and good on CNN for not backing down.

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:51 am

Greetings Chownah,
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:30 am
I'm not sure of how a host silencing an invited guest is cause for applause, but then, the suppression of opposing viewpoints is an popular past-time in certain quarters.
chownah wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:43 am
Retrofuturist, you are pimping for your political position.....it is not subtle....
My political position on this issue is freedom of speech and the marketplace of ideas. There is no partisanship in this regard, only an observation that one side of politics which used to be the champions of free speech, have taken it upon themselves to try to shut it down in recent times. No better is that shift more significant that in comparing the calibre of Mario Savio...



... to the degeneracy of Antifa ...



A side is not "correct" based on whether they are left or right... they are correct or incorrect based upon the principles they hold, the behaviour they demonstrate, and the view and values they espouse.

As I said to someone else earlier today in an unrelated conversation....

The Left used to primarily be about economics - provision of basic services, progressive taxation, safety nets, workers' rights and the right to assembly, free speech, stopping privatization etc.... now it's increasingly about culture, identity classifications, social engineering and promoting state policing of those aspects of daily life. Those who are partisan will follow their side, wherever it goes... Those who hold certain values and principles will take their stand on those values and principles, whilst the popularity of various political positions ebb and flow around them.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Bannon tells all in new book about Trump

Post by alan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:57 am

Tell me what that guy had to say, other than praising everything Trump. This is not an issue of free speech, it is about sanity.

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