Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

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No_Mind
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by No_Mind » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:20 am

alfa wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:30 am
All these are good points, but they won't apply in Prabupada's case because the man was abusive even towards fellow Indians. He would say very bad things even about great Indian sages and thinkers. This is obviously NOT Indian culture. We debate but we never abuse. But Prabupada wouldn't just debate. he would abuse people. He did not even spare people like Raman Maharshi or Vivekanand. So this goes way beyond culture. The man was abusive no matter which cultural standards we use to measure him.
Like what? Source?

And .. in India there is the division between Vaishnavs and Shaiva/Shakta.

Vivekananda was a Shaiva/Shakta, ate meat and fish, so ire about him is natural from an eminent Vaishnav (assuming you are an Indian and can comprehend what I am trying to say)

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:08 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:46 am
Not to argue. Tired of it.

You are forming opinion about a man from a random blogs. Show an original article (something that will pass Wikipedia citation criteria)
In the pages I linked to are references to official ISKCON texts, like Srila Prabhupada's translations and purports to the Bhagavad Gita and the Srimad Bhagavatam, as well as to his lectures and the conversations he had with devotees and other people.

These matters are far from secretive; if anything, ISKCON is one of the most transparent religious movements. As far as I know, ISKCON gurus have written essays on all controversial topics that arose in relation to their founder, and made them public.
Anyone can write anything in a blog!! Is that the level of proof you are offering? That is worse than slander.
Then you clearly didn't see the references in those websites I linked to, nor can recognize them.

No link that you have presented is first hand or passes scrutiny. They are all hearsay. Secondly all that they show is .. he is using the N word several times to describe black folk .. back in 1970 what was so unusual about it?

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:08 am
If we consider SP to be just another man (and one who had an unhappy arranged marriage, that he specifically agreed to enter into in an effort to overcome attachment to sensual desire more quickly (this is no secret)), then nothing he said about women, blacks, or anything else, for that matter, is something to be upset about.

However, if we are supposed to view SP as a "pure devotee of the Lord," as "the most spiritually advanced being on the planet", as "the authority on what needs to be done in order to be pleasing to God", then this changes things, and all his words and actions gain a weight that they otherwise wouldn't have.

No one has asked you to look upon Prabhupada as an avatar or son of God. He was a well known translator and commentator of Gita .. the largest selling version but not the most accurate version since it has a definite Vaishnava slant. He was also at one time well known as founder of ISKCON (whom "real" Hindus viewed largely as eccentric whites trying to have a taste of the East)

His translation of Bhagvad Gita is the most recent and also most well known. Not many have written complete commentary (bhashya) of Gita but he did so .. in full and a reasonably admirable translation too (from Vaishnava point of view). It has to be remembered he was a self taught scholar, an autodidact. When translating something as complex as Gita .. that is laudable no matter how one looks at it since he did it while providing for a family and raising several children. One thousand pages, 700 verse translation and lengthy commentary/explanation by a non-scholar, non-academic householder is impressive work.

Some of us (Indians) have grudging admiration for the man because in 1965 at age 69 with no money in his pocket he set out to let the whole world know the message of the principal Hindu holy book Bhagavad Gita and reasonably succeeded with followers/converts in nearly every country around the world (around 200,000 when he died in 1977).

This post is about Dalai Lama and why he acts so oddly at times as seen in the video presented in OP.

Out of nowhere you brought up Prabhupada in the discussion and you are shouting yourself hoarse that if he is son of God then his behaviour is despicable :lol: :lol:

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

binocular
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by binocular » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:20 am
No link that you have presented is first hand or passes scrutiny. They are all hearsay.
Clearly, you don't recognize the references. I suggest then that you go to your local ISKCON shop and buy a copy of their BG, and maybe a few cantos of their SB and other materials, and then you can locate the references there.
Or look things up here at their website: https://vedabase.io/en/

For example:
A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/4/25/41/
Generally, separation between husband and wife is due to womanly behavior; divorce takes place due to womanly weakness. The best course for a woman is to abide by the orders of her husband. That makes family life very peaceful. Sometimes there may be misunderstandings between husband and wife, as found even in such an elevated family relationship as that of Satī and Lord Śiva, but a wife should not leave her husband’s protection because of such a misunderstanding. If she does so, it is understood to be due to her womanly weakness.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/4/4/3/
Prabhupāda: And especially in your country it will be dangerous because these blacks, if they don't get employment, they will create havoc, these blacks. And they are not civilized. They want money, and if they don't get money, then they will create havoc.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/770121r2bhu/
And so on.

If you still think this is hearsay, then I don't know what to say ...
Secondly all that they show is .. he is using the N word several times to describe black folk .. back in 1970 what was so unusual about it?
Calling them uncivilized and that they should be controlled, like slaves ...
Prabhupāda: Śūdra is to be controlled only. They are never given to be freedom. Just like in America = the blacks were slaves; they were under control. And since you have given them some equal rights, they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.
https://vedabase.io/en/library/transcripts/770214r2may/
No one has asked you to look upon Prabhupada as an avatar or son of God.
No, that they have not.
But I was expected to think of SP as a pure devotee of the Lord.
He was a well known translator and commentator of Gita .. the largest selling version but not the most accurate version since it has a definite Vaishnava slant.
Oh? "Not the most accurate version" -- just like that, you solve a major theological and text-critical problem?
This post is about Dalai Lama and why he acts so oddly at times as seen in the video presented in OP.
People asked for evidence, and I provided it.
Out of nowhere you brought up Prabhupada in the discussion and you are shouting yourself hoarse that if he is son of God then his behaviour is despicable
Really, I'm doing that? Wow. Talk about Asian supremacism.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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cappuccino
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:40 pm

Let your focus be on the good qualities of others,
forget their bad qualities.

(everyone has bad qualities)

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No_Mind
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by No_Mind » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:01 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm
No one has asked you to look upon Prabhupada as an avatar or son of God.
No, that they have not.
But I was expected to think of SP as a pure devotee of the Lord.
I was expected to think? Who expected you to think?
binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm
This post is about Dalai Lama and why he acts so oddly at times as seen in the video presented in OP.
People asked for evidence, and I provided it.
I drew attention to Dalai Lama unnecessarily fawning over Prince Charles. I asked for no evidence :?
binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm
Out of nowhere you brought up Prabhupada in the discussion and you are shouting yourself hoarse that if he is son of God then his behaviour is despicable
Really, I'm doing that?
Yes you did ..
binocular wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:39 am
Srila Prabhupada (the founder of the Hare Krishna movement from India), for example, believed that all trouble in marriage is the wife's fault.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that people from other Asian countries believe such things, and that they would find no fault with a cheating husband.
I don't lie. If you click that little blue arrow next to "binocular wrote" it will take you back to the page where, out of the blue, you first brought up his name.

Enough discussion about Prabhupada. I quit this part of the thread.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

Saengnapha
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:34 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:40 pm
Let your focus be on the good qualities of others,
forget their bad qualities.

(everyone has bad qualities)
Can you name some of Hitler's good qualities? Is that supposed to override the rest of his behavior?

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cappuccino
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by cappuccino » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:41 pm

Take it easy on people,
especially good people like the Dalai Lama.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:59 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:34 pm
Can you name some of Hitler's good qualities? Is that supposed to override the rest of his behavior?
From wikipedia:
Blondi (1941 – 29 April 1945)[Note 1][1] was Adolf Hitler's German Shepherd, a gift as a puppy[2][3] from Martin Bormann in 1941. Blondi stayed with Hitler even after his move into the Führerbunker located underneath the garden of the Reich Chancellery on 16 January 1945.[4]

Hitler was reportedly very fond of Blondi, keeping her by his side and allowing her to sleep in his bed in the bunker.[...]

During his military service in World War I, Hitler rescued a stray white Fox Terrier named "Fuchsl". Hitler had great affection for the dog, and, when he was not on duty at the front, he would spend much of his free time playing with the dog in the barracks. Hitler was profoundly distraught when he lost him.
No, it's not supposed to override the rest of his behaviour.

chownah
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by chownah » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:34 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:40 pm
Let your focus be on the good qualities of others,
forget their bad qualities.

(everyone has bad qualities)
Can you name some of Hitler's good qualities? Is that supposed to override the rest of his behavior?
A behavior does not "override" another behavior.
A quality does not "override" another quality.
A behavior and a quality do not "override" each other.
To think that they do is self making.
chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:57 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:34 pm
cappuccino wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:40 pm
Let your focus be on the good qualities of others,
forget their bad qualities.

(everyone has bad qualities)
Can you name some of Hitler's good qualities? Is that supposed to override the rest of his behavior?
A behavior does not "override" another behavior.
A quality does not "override" another quality.
A behavior and a quality do not "override" each other.
To think that they do is self making.
chownah
What is the difference between a behavior and a quality?

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by chownah » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:48 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:57 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Can you name some of Hitler's good qualities? Is that supposed to override the rest of his behavior?
A behavior does not "override" another behavior.
A quality does not "override" another quality.
A behavior and a quality do not "override" each other.
To think that they do is self making.
chownah
What is the difference between a behavior and a quality?
If you don't know then just google them.
chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:45 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:48 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:57 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:26 am

A behavior does not "override" another behavior.
A quality does not "override" another quality.
A behavior and a quality do not "override" each other.
To think that they do is self making.
chownah
What is the difference between a behavior and a quality?
If you don't know then just google them.
chownah
Is it my laziness or yours? :D

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by chownah » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:45 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:48 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:57 am

What is the difference between a behavior and a quality?
If you don't know then just google them.
chownah
Is it my laziness or yours? :D
I have no issue with this.......am I too lazy to jump through your hoop or is it you?
chownah

manas
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Re: Why does Dalai Lama do the things he does?

Post by manas » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:49 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:46 am


Asians do not know the N word is a pejorative! It is the name of a large river in South America for God's sake. If one day I become a famous preacher or writer will you hold it against me .. No_Mind used the N word in conversation in 2017?
If you ever speak at a University Campus, watch out for possible hordes of SJW's chanting, "no to no-mind, no to racism!" (just kidding...mostly).
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:46 am
...
Stop using your culture and your political correctness to judge those from other parts of the world.

:namaste:
Thank you for articulating the issues regarding hearsay,
for example the oft-heard "I heard that Prabhupada once said..." (probably said and re-told countless times by now), and the crucial issue of Prabhupada's first language not being English (issues of imperfect translation). In many ways, his views reflected the standard beliefs of many religious, Indian men of the time. That's why I wrote, "culturally acquired sexism". I'll bet that some cultures, find the insatiable greed for, and wastage of, material possessions, that we in rich Western countries engage in, hard to fathom. Every culture has historical reasons, for it's good and bad points.

:anjali:

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