Feminism for men

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
DooDoot
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:40 pm

Aloka wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:46 pm
Sea Turtle wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:16 pm
binocular wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:26 pm
Medical proefssionals...
medical professional...
NHS... GP... hospital
Many medical professionals are basically drug-dealers for pharmaceutical companies. Not even psychologically/pyschiatrically qualified, they give out anti-depressant prescriptions to women who ask; not even requiring the confused & suffering women to attend psychological counselling. What do most medical professionals know about psychology or dhammic well-being, anyway? Generally, not much. Recently I wrote to a cancer specialist about advising her female patient to possibly try to desist from habitual anger during her post-operative & cemo-therapy period. The medical professional wasn't really interest because, to her, the causes of cancer are all physical, genetic, etc.
Of all occupations and professions, the medical profession consistently hovers near the top of occupations with the highest risk of death by suicide. ... Depression is at least as common in the medical profession as in the general population, affecting an estimated 12% of males and up to 19.5% of females.Jun 12, 2017
Physician Suicide: Overview, Depression in Physicians, Problems ...
emedicine.medscape.com/article/806779-overview

DooDoot
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:06 am

Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
Healthy sex being the christian view of one wife, and no sex before marriage?
This appears also the view of the Buddha, who said a woman's wish is to not share a co-wife & said the duties of parents are to arrange a suitable marriage for their children. The Buddha appeared to not encourage sex before marriage.
A man, O brahmin, is a woman’s aim, her quest is for adornments, her mainstay is sons, her desire is to be without a co-wife and her ideal is domination.

https://static.sirimangalo.org/pdf/bpsanguttara2.pdf
In five ways, young householder, the parents thus ministered to as the East by their children, show their compassion:

(i) they restrain them from evil,
(ii) they encourage them to do good,
(iii) they train them for a profession,
(iv) they arrange a suitable marriage,
(v) at the proper time they hand over their inheritance to them.


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nara.html
Bhante, since I was young, when the young girl Nakulamātā was given to me in marriage, I do not recall ever transgressing against her even in thought, much less by deed. We wish, Bhante, to see one another not only in this present life but also in future lives.”

The housewife Nakulamātā in turn said to the Blessed One: “Bhante, since I was a young girl given to the young householder Nakulapitā in marriage, I do not recall ever transgressing against him even in thought, much less by deed. We wish, Bhante, to see one another not only in this present life but also in future lives.


https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.55
protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
Before western influence in Thailand, men married up to 100 girls at one time.
The Kings of Thailand are said to be reincarnations of Vishnu. They are Hindus. Also, this delight about 100 girls sounds very Islamic.
Rama (Kings of Thailand) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama_(Kings_of_Thailand)
All kings in the current Chakri dynasty of Thailand are often referred to as Rama... The name Rama was adopted from the name of the Hindu God Rama, an avatar of Vishnu.
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
Kings, who were also Buddhist teachers
No. The Kings of Thailands are said to be reincarnations of Vishnu.
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
had harems where massive sex orgies took place with 50+ girls. One of the Thai epics, Khun Chang Khun Paen (ขุนช้างขุนแผน) is a story all Thai students read in school. It is about Khun Paen, a sorcerer, martial artist, and soldier, that used love spells taught to him by his Buddhist Ajahn to seduce women. Thai people dangle his magical amulets around their necks to this day to attract mates. They also occasionally put their menstrual blood in a boys drink, because they think it will make him fall in love. Having spoken to some Thai Ruesi and Occultists, i've been told love spells aren't even bad karma.
Sure. But none of this is Buddhist. If it really happened, it is merely Thai.
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
After westerners came to Thailand, and were trying to occupy it, they were insulting the Thais sexual practices, telling them they are backwards, and using this as an excuse to take over the country.
Irrelevant. What is Thai is not necessarily Buddhist. For example, this video about Thailand does not reflect Buddhist principles. The trade or traffic in human beings is Wrong Livelihood in Buddhism.


Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison. "These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
So the king began changing things to prevent the country from being occupied. But still to this day, in the villages somewhat untouched by the west, you can find sexual practices that would make a foreigners jaw drop.
In my experience, this is false. I lived overlooking villages in Southern Thailand for a few years. Women are held to be pure mothers & matriarchs. This is why there are always local brothels. When the mothers say no sex to their husbands, some of the husbands go to the brothels.
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
And in monasteries you can find Ajahns selling magical love amulets depicting women in various sexual positions, including, but not limited to, getting banged by horses.
In the suttas, this is wrong livelihood for a monk, as follows:

Whereas some contemplatives & brahmans, living off food given in faith, maintain themselves by wrong livelihood, by such "animal" arts as: promising gifts to deities in return for favors; fulfilling such promises; demonology; reciting spells in earth houses [see earth skills, above]; inducing virility and impotence; preparing sites for construction; consecrating sites for construction; giving ceremonial mouthwashes and ceremonial baths; offering sacrificial fires; administering emetics, purges, purges from above, purges from below, head-purges; ear-oil, eye-drops, treatments through the nose, ointments, and counter-ointments; practicing eye-surgery [or: extractive surgery], general surgery, pediatrics; administering root-medicines and binding medicinal herbs — he abstains from wrong livelihood, from "animal" arts such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
As early as the 1960s, the Thai Prime Minister Sarit Thanarat (สฤษดิ์ ธนะรัชต์) died leaving behind 100 female concubines. He was loved by HM King Bhumibol, largely considered to be one of the greatest Buddhist Kings of all time.
During his funeral, King Bhumibol touched heads with Sarit, depicting his connection to the virtue of the Dhammaraj, and the picture was distributed throughout the media for 2 years.
Personally, I would not comment on King Bhumibol, given I have noticed a few worshippers of King Bhumibol on this forum, who obviously don't know so much about him. However, unlike King Bhumibol, people were allowed to criticize the Lord Buddha.


Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
In the Thai language, you can find on the internet numerous monks defending polygamy, 15-20-25 wives at one time, and using the polygamy in the suttas as their defense.
The Buddha never referred to polygamy as an ideal marriage arrangement (eg. AN 4.55). The Buddha said a woman's wish is to not share a co-wife (AN 6.52).
Turmeric wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:51 pm
Who is to say what type of sexual preference is good or bad? Lets just try not to hurt anyone, and not be too judgmental.
The Buddha taught lust is a hurtful defilement.
Brahmin, one excited by lust, overcome by lust, with mind obsessed by it, intends for his own affliction, for the affliction of others, or for the affliction of both, and he experiences mental suffering and dejection.

https://suttacentral.net/en/an3.54
202. There is no fire like lust and no crime like hatred.

251. There is no fire like lust; there is no grip like hatred; there is no net like delusion; there is no river like craving.

Dhammapada
Bhikkhus, all is burning. And what is the all that is burning? Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion.

Fire Sermon
Having sex with people without real love, compassion & commitment creates the greatest hurt. This is why the Buddha taught:
Separation from the loved is suffering. SN 56.11
242. Unchastity is the taint in a woman.

215. From lust springs grief, from lust springs fear.

Dhammapada
The world would be a shambles, and there wouldn’t be enough room for us all in the prisons. This is the harm that comes from letting oneself go under the unruly power of sexual lust. There’d be no such word as ‘enough’, and no doubt but that dogs in heat would be no match for us.

Dogs have no sense of limits when lust takes over. They can go anywhere at all with no fear of death, no concern for hunger or thirst at all.
They run wild, without a thought for their owners. At most, they may stop by their homes for a moment. If anyone feeds them in time, they
eat. If not, they’re off and running. And look at them. What do they look like at times like this? Ears torn, mouths torn, legs torn, stomachs ripped
open in some cases, all from the fights they get into. Some of them die, some of them go crazy, some of them never return home.
When animals get going like this under the power of lust, this is the sort of harm it leads to. When the season comes, males and females go running wild after one another. The fires of lust and anger get burning together and can consume everything. This is what happens when animals know no bounds, that is, when their lust knows no limits. They suffer so much pain, so much distress when the disease of lust flares up – so much so that some of them die or are crippled for life.

If we human beings didn’t have the Dhamma of fewness of wants as brakes on our wheels for our own safety’s sake, we’d know no limits in
following our instincts either. We’d cause much more harm and destruction to one another than animals do, because of our intelligence. If we’re
intelligent in the right way, it’s an honour and a benefit to ourselves, our family and nation, but this human intelligence of ours is something that
lends itself to all sorts of uses, and for the most part, if our minds are low, it becomes a tool for doing a great deal of evil. It’s because of our
intelligence that we human beings can do one another so much harm. This is why we need moral virtue as a guide, as protection, so that
we can live together happily and in peace. Between husbands and wives this means being faithful to each other. Don’t go looking for scraps and
leftovers like our friends in August and September. That’s not the sort of policy that human beings – who know enough to have a sense of right
and wrong, good and bad – should put into practice. Otherwise we’ll destroy, or at the very least reduce, the honour of our human status.
Worse than that, we’ll ruin ourselves to the point of having absolutely no worth.



http://dhammatalks.net/Books2/Maha_Boow ... _Worth.pdf
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:52 am, edited 11 times in total.

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Bundokji
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by Bundokji » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:27 am

I think its difficult to tell to what extent acknowledging a problem exacerbates it instead of solving it. Or to put it differently, to what extent perceiving a phenomena as a problem, makes it a problem?

To be more clear, i think the sexual behavior of men towards women has its roots in our evolutionary history, and i think the worst rapist in today's standard might not be worse than the normal behavior few centuries ago or might even be seen as a gentleman in comparison! And yet, the complaining is increasing, not decreasing.

What is that really changed? is it men, that all of the sudden, became sexual beasts? or is it that many expressions of sexual desires of men towards women started to viewed as inappropriate?

Is it a coincident that Sweden, the most feminist country in the world, has the highest rape rate per capita? are men really out of control there, or is it women who started to view and interpret many incidents as rape?

Are women completely opposed to forced sex? What does our fantasies say about our evolutionary history and the sexual behavior of men and women?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/al ... -fantasies

And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

chownah
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by chownah » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:33 am

binocular wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:26 pm
chownah wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:48 am
You seem to think that sex is a death trap!
Sometimes, it is.
You seem to be doing your best to change the topic of discussion towards some delusional alternate reality.......where people are not self realized agents are not able to learn about life and are not able to make decisions. Maybe this is how you see people....maybe this is how you see yourself.....it is not how I see people....it is not how I see myself....
Medical proefssionals don't think humans are self-realized agents and that instead they need to be told what to think, feel, speak, and do, like robots. And women and unborn children pay the price.
....only in a delusional alternate reality......total bs.....
chownah

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binocular
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:59 pm

Sea Turtle wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:16 pm
I'm not a licensed medical professional, but as mentioned earlier, have been a medical writer and researcher for my entire career in the USA. My concentration has been mostly in oncology and diabetes, but I've also done research and writing on both men's and women's sexual health. As part of my job, I have worked closely, at times, with a broad-spanning physician audience. I have never encountered the attitudes or ideas that you speak of, either professionally or personally. Again, this is not to say that your experiences are not valid. Just that they cannot be generalized to all medical professionals or to all women.
Actually, most of what I said has nothing to do with my personal experience or the state of the world or any particular part thereof, but was an extrapolation from some often-heard claims that are generally considered non-controversial, such as the claim that it is normal to have sex even when you don't want to have children. I focused on the non-controversial claims and the extrapolations precisely because I wanted to avoid the idea that what I'm saying is just my personal bias.

Many non-controversial claims, when followed to their logical conclusions, can turn out to be really ugly.

- - -
Mr Man wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:28 pm
So it is not just women who are oppressing women?
The oppression of women is a complex, systematic phenomenon; and complex, systematic phenomena don't just happen over night, or as the actions of just one side. Women are accomplices in their own oppression, primarily by indulging in sentimentality, romanticism, and martyrdom, which makes them easy targets for abuse.

- - -
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:40 pm
Many medical professionals are basically drug-dealers for pharmaceutical companies.
And at least in some countries, they have a legally prescribed amount of time for seeing their patients. Here, this is 8 minutes; 8 minutes for greeting, discussing, the physical exam, reading the medical history, writing prescriptions, everything. My GP used to have a chess watch on his desk to measure the time.

Anyway, I don't want to tie this to specific empirical situations, because then it's easy to detract from the main argument.
Last edited by binocular on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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binocular
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:36 pm

Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
High level Ajahns speak with the Buddha and Arahants. They don't need to learn from the suttas.
Asian supremacism strikes again, and we've got no right to take our place with the Buddhist race!
:woohoo:

Turmeric
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by Turmeric » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:08 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:36 pm
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
High level Ajahns speak with the Buddha and Arahants. They don't need to learn from the suttas.
Asian supremacism strikes again, and we've got no right to take our place with the Buddhist race!
:woohoo:
High level Ajahns of any skin color.

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binocular
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:07 pm

Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:08 pm
High level Ajahns of any skin color.
It's not skin color that makes one an Asian Buddhist supremacist, but the conviction that only the Asian way to do Buddhism is the right one.
:focus:

DooDoot
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:30 am

Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
The bull picture is a sak yant tattoo for seducing the opposite sex. The amulet is for the same purpose.
A Thai village witchdocter form of Viagra? Some Femininsts don't support Viagra.
I'm a feminist. Here's why I don't support the 'female Viagra.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... 0bb98fe9ca
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
It's not false. In the villages there are 30 year olds living with the parents of their 14 year old pregnant girlfriends. Certainly something that would make a foreigners jaw drop.
Why is it jaw-dropping? Maybe to a Feminist it is jaw-dropping! Are you a Feminist? :shrug: Even so, what does "jaw-dropping" have to do with Buddhism? As you said, the girls & fathers are living with their parents. Some young girls get pregnant outside of marriage but this appears not what the Buddha taught.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
HM King Chulalongkorns wife was a little girl. And the age of consent in Thailand was 13 until the 1980s. My friend has a 13 year old in her area that goes around banging all of the old men.
So what? In the West, there are estimates that up to 33% of girls experience sexual abuse, most often from family members & friends of family. Once a girl is conditioned that it is her social role to have sex with men, she will often continue to have sex with men. Not having sex with men will create withdrawal symptoms of lots of pain & confusion in her.

This video is of an Australian prostitute (who is now dead). It can be seen in this video how giving sexual pleasure to men became this woman's "self-image". Prostitution has existed for 1000s of years because evil men understand how easy it is to condition women to be like this. Women have an instinct to give. If this instinct is transformed into giving sexual pleasure to men, this makes many sadistic men happy. Women become the sexual slaves of men. Thais are just people. They are not necessarily Buddhists. There are Thai men, like many other men, who delight in the sexual slavery of women. Feminists get confused about this. Sometimes feminists say prostitution is empowering; other times feminists say prostitution is slavery.










Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
HM King Chulalongkorns wife was a little girl. And the age of consent in Thailand was 13 until the 1980s. My friend has a 13 year old in her area that goes around banging all of the old men. King and his wife in the pictures below.
My aunty was married at 13yo. In the USA, a 13yo can be married. Are you saying HM King Chulalongkorns wife was a little girl banging all of the old men? :shrug:

There is a big DIFFERENCE between a sexually mature 13 year old getting married (like my aunty) and a 13 year old girl subjected to sexual abuse by many men.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Down below a picture of the Buddha in his sex harem while he was in the palace.
Its just a picture (rather than anything real.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Thai Kings spent a proportion of their life ordained as Buddhist monks. Rama IV's teacher was Pra Somdet Toh,an Arahant, and a forest monk that he brought to his palace to live with him. It is required by law for Thai kings to be Buddhist. But of course there are some hindu elements there. Thailand was Hindu before it was Buddhist. The Ruesi combine Hinduism and Buddhism. Also, since you like to quote Luangta so much, Luangta said King Bhumibol was like the Lord Brahma that cares about all of his children. And Luangta was King Bhumibols teacher. Here is the King talking about Buddhism
It doubt King Bhumibol nor his wife (unlike allegations about Bill & Hillary Clinton) had sex with little girls.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Some people like polygamy, some people don't. Generalizing an entire gender like this is obviously wrong.
Polygamy is not against Buddhism nor is it about gender. However, Buddha never praised polygamy as ideal.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
High level Ajahns speak with the Buddha and Arahants. They don't need to learn from the suttas.
The Buddha passed away 2,500 years ago.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Hm King Bhumibol said anyone that accuses someone of lese majesty is directly harming him. And has said publicly he is not above criticism.
Bhumibol is dead. Bhumibol was a figure head for the military dictatorships of Thailand.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
If you say that I cannot be criticized, then it is like you are insulting me, because you are saying I'm not human. - King Bhumibol.
If Bhumibol really meant this, why didn't Bhumibol have the lese majesty law repealed? :shrug:


Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
The Buddhas dad had more than one wife. Also, you never met the Buddha, and don't know what he said.
Buddha's dad was not a Buddha. Buddha's words are in the suttas, which is the basis of faith in Buddhism.
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Lay people don't need to be celibate. A sotapanna still has desire.
I never mentioned celibacy. Lay Buddhists are to practise non-harming. You seem to believe many old men having sex with a 13 year old is not harming?
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Exactly, the Buddha taught separation from a loved one is suffering. So this is why we should only have sex with girls we don't love.
Buddhism does not seem to teach this. It seems the Buddha taught promiscuous sex without love is behaving like animals, similar to what Ajahn Maha Boowa taught, as follows. In summary, it looks like its got nothing to do with the practise of Buddhism.
... the world would have fallen into promiscuity, as with goats, sheep, chickens, pigs, dogs, and jackals.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .irel.html
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:53 am
Luangta said King Bhumibol was like the Lord Brahma that cares about all of his children.
Your posts are getting sort of confusing. Are you saying "many men banging a 13 year old girl" is like the Lord Brahma that cares about all of his children? Are you saying the Thai Ajahns who talk to the Buddha teach many old men sexually abusing a 13yo girl is OK?

:?

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:57 am

Tumeric, You really lost us when you supported pedophilia, sex with 13 year olds.
Last edited by lyndon taylor on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:09 am

Greetings,

OK, I think we've drifted quite far enough away from the topic at hand...

:focus:

Please also remember that "Advocating illegal activity" is a violation of the Terms of Service. Yes, the age of consent varies from country to country, and some are as low as 13, but please be mindful of how to present your perspective.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

DooDoot
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 am

Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:45 am
Girls like to have sex because sex feels good.
Sex can feel good but it can lead to suffering; similar to how taking drugs can feel good but lead to suffering.


Turmeric
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by Turmeric » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:00 am
Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:45 am
Girls like to have sex because sex feels good.
Sex can feel good but it can lead to suffering; similar to how taking drugs can feel good but lead to suffering.

So become a celibate monk, and only eat 2 pieces of rice every day. You aren't going to do it. We are all going to have sex. And if someone is heart broken, they can contemplate the foulness of the body, and use the religion to lessen their suffering. Girls don't need people protecting them from themselves, they can do what they want.

Please let me save you, you are going to drown, said the monkey putting the fish up into the tree.

Edit: And by the way, I know you aren't trying to say that everyone should be celibate. But you are arguing for one wife one husband marriages, and no sex before marriage. This is awesome bro. I totally dig it. And I support anyone that wants to wait until they get married to have sex. But I also support people that don't want to wait, as well as people that prefer polygamy. All I'm advocating for is the right to choose.

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:02 am

Feminism is starting to sound a whole lot more attractive about now!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Bundokji
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Re: Feminism for men

Post by Bundokji » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:09 am

Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am
All I'm advocating for is the right to choose.
I don't think anyone is against that, but some feminists took this a bit further and pushed too far. Some feminists, either intentionally or unintentionally, associated the liberation of women with promiscuous sexual behavior, so women who choose to be more conservative about sex became under fire.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 am

I don't know if I can speak for everyone, but I for one did not become interested in Thai Buddhism because of the horrific sex trade in Thailand, but rather in spite of it.

What I found at the Thai and Cambodian immigrant temples is your ability to be respected by the immigrant community was directly proportional to how little interest you showed in the Thai women and girls. In fact the members were often questioning if you came to the temple looking for girls, I can only imagine what their response would have been if I answered in the affirmative. They didn't seem to like the idea.

After my short stint as a monk and longer time as a temple boy, I was propositioned to marry a Cambodian women in a semi arranged situation, she was a donut store owner. Seeing some lack of respect that seems to be directed at westerners that marry South East Asian women, I decided against it, that and the idea of possibly working at a donut shop did not appeal to me!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:52 am

Greetings Turmeric,
[Pictures of Turmeric chatting up Thai girls online removed...]
Is there a way you can make whatever point it is you think you're making, without taking us on a guided tour of your sensual misadventures?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:03 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 am
What I found at the Thai and Cambodian immigrant temples is your ability to be respected by the immigrant community was directly proportional to how little interest you showed in the Thai women and girls. In fact the members were often questioning if you came to the temple looking for girls, I can only imagine what their response would have been if I answered in the affirmative. They didn't seem to like the idea.
When I lived in a monastery as a layman, I dressed in a way where Thai people knew I lived in a monastery. Plus I had lots of responsibilities so I would have to go to the large town/small city, occasionally. Sexy teenage school girls would circle me & test me, just like Thai women will test you, for your morality. It was fun. In traditional Thai culture, husbands & wives do not even hold hands in public, let alone show affection. A woman traditionally will not marry a man who has not undertaken a rains as a monk. Amongst practicing Thai Buddhists, it is certainly true your ability to be respected is directly proportional to how little interest you showed in the Thai women and girls. As for Tumeric, he/she sounds like they are part of an internet realm (loka), which naturally would include Thais who have rejected Buddha for Internet Mara.

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:27 am

Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am
if someone is heart broken, they can contemplate the foulness of the body, and use the religion to lessen their suffering.
Again, this appears to be a wrong view. According to the Pali suttas, the Lord Buddha taught to contemplate the foulness of the body for the purpose of extinguishing sexual desire. To quote:
Develop the meditation of foulness. For when you are developing the meditation of foulness, lust will be abandoned.

MN 62
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am
Girls don't need people protecting them from themselves, they can do what they want.
Girls can certainly do what they want & will be heirs to their kamma according to kammic law but Buddhists cannot do what they want because Buddhists protect themselves & others from both suffering & degradation. To quote:
"O Bhikkhus, protecting oneself, one protects others; protecting others, one protects oneself. And how does one, in protecting oneself, protect others? By earnest practice, cultivation and development (of satipatthana). In this way, by protecting oneself, one protects others. And how does one, in protecting others, protect oneself? By forbearance, by non-violence, by possessing a heart of metta and compassion. In this way, by protecting others, one protects oneself.

"'I shall protect myself,' with this intention, Bhikkhus, satipatthana should be practised.

"'I shall protect others,' with this intention, Bhikkhus, satipatthana should be practised.

"Protecting oneself, one protects others; protecting others, one protects oneself." [S.V.168-169]
:alien:
Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am
Please let me save you, you are going to drown, said the monkey putting the fish up into the tree.
Please let me speak the True Dhamma, said the Buddhist watching on with equanimity.
Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:21 am
But I also support people that don't want to wait, as well as people that prefer polygamy. All I'm advocating for is the right to choose.
Polygamy is not promiscuity. The suttas appear to say polygamy is OK but say promiscuity is to behave like animals, as was already quoted. Buddhism does not appear to provide Buddhists with the right to choose the unwholesome over the wholesome. The right to choose is a non-religious matter, for non-Buddhists & non-religious people. For example, if you choose to have sex in a monastery, the monastery may call the police to remove you. No right to choose for practising Buddhists. The right to choose sounds like more Feminism.
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feminism for men

Post by DooDoot » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:36 am

Turmeric wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:31 am
Say what you really feel. That you think girls that have sex outside of marriage are dirty sluts.
Not really. I spoke my mind in the beginning, when I said girls often dangerously are seeking 'self-affirmation' (rather than mere physical pleasure) when they are promiscuous. If sex was merely physical, apart from STDs, it would not be dangerous at all. The Buddha would praise it. In my experience & observation of life, my conclusion is the more people have sex outside of marriage or prior to marriage, for the most part, the more they struggle to maintain a relationship or maintain a marriage once they decide to attempt to settle down. I theorize or hypothesize that something I call a "bonding instinct" is often broken or damaged, thus the phrase: "damaged goods". Thus, these people get older, lonelier, more desperate & often more medicated. I know lots of them.
MN 19: So too I saw in unwholesome states danger, degradation and defilement...
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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