Trump. And why I hate him.

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DNS
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by DNS »

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:19 am
....
DooDoot,

Are you a Trump supporter? I thought you were a leftist, at least economically?

You often quote about the Jewish conspiracy stuff regarding Zionist agendas, international banking, neo-cons, etc. You do know Kushner is Jewish, Ivanka converted to Judaism and Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem?

How can you be a Trump supporter?

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Bundokji
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Bundokji »

Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:11 pm
That human beings behave to some degree in ways that are socially predicable and acceptable seems a reasonable expectation. In the days of the Buddha lay followers expected a certain level of conduct from monastics and training rules were put in place.
Hello Mr Man,

What is socially acceptable seems to be something always negotiated. Expectations are the outcome of a repeated behavior by a certain social class or certain social situation. We seem to expect leaders and politicians to behave and talk differently than average citizens as they represent a country. Trump did not meet the expectation of how a politician should behave, and yet, this did not become a cause for disappointment among his supporters. In fact, many see his behavior as refreshing and less pretentious.

I can't see how your example of the training rules for lay Buddhists is relevant here. Buddhism has its own enlightenment project, and it happened, that we, as Buddhists, believed in it and followed it, but for the vast majority of people in the world, it is not necessarily the best choice.
or more willing. Or have an aspiration of higher conduct, which shapes behaviour
How does the aspiration of higher conduct becomes a cause for hatred (as in the case of the OP) if i may ask? my contribution on this thread was an attempt to provide a theory or an explanation. Do you have a different explanation?
I wonder if many can successfully overlook what arises in there own minds (consistently). I certainly can't but I can, sometimes, apply restraint in a way that is skilful.
The problem as i see it, at least when it comes to politicians, is that they lack good intentions. Usually, those who deceive others by hiding their true intentions are themselves deceived by their own lies. When it comes to Trump, he can be seen as a relatively safer choice as he builds very low expectations about himself.

During the last four days, i attended a conference and i met a Palestinian guy. We had a conversation about Trump and his declaration of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and the Palestinian guy told me that even though he dislikes Trump, he respects him for not pretending to be neutral as previous presidents did.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Mr Man
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Mr Man »

Hi Bundokji
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:13 pm
I can't see how your example of the training rules for lay Buddhists is relevant here.
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.

I was referring to how lay followers (or sometimes other monastics) expected a certain level of behaviour from monastics (socially predicable and acceptable behaviour). When the monastics failed to meet their expectations the lay people complained. Subsequently rules were put in place which governed the behaviour of monastics.

I was not referring to rules for lay Buddhists.

Not sure if you will find it relevant though (or understandable) :)

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:52 pm
DooDoot,

Are you a Trump supporter?
Obviously DooDoot is best positioned to speak on this, but my understanding (from this and other topics) is that there are aspects of what Trump has done that DooDoot approves of. There are aspects of what Trump has done that DooDoot doesn't approve of. There are other aspects of what Trump has done, is doing, or may be preparing to do, where DooDoot is willing to wait and see how it pans out.

The fact he approaches it on an issue by issue basis, rather than on a basis of general like and dislike (and their associated knee-jerk reactions) is something I have appreciated, and it makes for more interesting reading and conversation.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by DNS »

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:31 pm
The fact he approaches it on an issue by issue basis, rather than on a basis of general like and dislike (and their associated knee-jerk reactions) is something I have appreciated, and it makes for more interesting reading and conversation.
Yeah, it could be Trump's brash personality that makes people either love him or hate him, not much middle way; focusing on issue by issue basis would be better.

I like how Trump mentioned the Iraq War was a big mistake and blasted G W Bush about that during the campaign and so far, no new wars.

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by DooDoot »

DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:52 pm
Are you a Trump supporter? I thought you were a leftist, at least economically?
Personally, I just judge based in good & bad kamma performed, as taught in the Holy Koran, where, on the Day of Judgment, each atoms weight of good & evil performed will be weighed up. Personally, I think the whole American system stinks & can't imagine myself supporting any American president, ever; probably not even Kennedy. In my eyes, the US govt & military is imperialist or covert colonialist.

If Trump reduces imperialist militarism, I have mudita (gladness). If Trump reduces taxes for the wealthy, I don't approve.
DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:52 pm
You often quote about the Jewish conspiracy stuff regarding Zionist agendas, international banking, neo-cons, etc. You do know Kushner is Jewish, Ivanka converted to Judaism and Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem?
I doubt there is a kooky conspiracy. The Israeli foreign policy goals were clearly stated in the Yinon Plan and Richard Perle's 'Clean Break', which were followed exactly post 9/11. Netanyahu has recently openly expressed his unhappiness at the failure of ISIS in Syria. Two Jewish men below, one blaming Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya & North Korea for 9/11, while 9/11 was occurring; the other incredulous to why Iraq, Iran, Libya were blamed for 9/11; a few days after 9/11:




DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:52 pm
How can you be a Trump supporter?
Kushner is not merely Jewish. From what I have heard, Kushner's family are settlement builders in Israel & I assume the West Bank. They appear to be radical Zionists rather than merely Jewish. Not every Jewish person is a radical Zionist or ordinary Zionist. Many Jewish people oppose Zionism.



In short, I am not a Trump supporter but I am a Dhamma supporter. In my view, the existence of Israel is now a given; but there are no longer any threats to Israel. A Palestinian nation should be created, with UN administered assurances, & Zionists should stop their goals of increasing the size of Israel, with settlements in the West Bank & Golan.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by DNS »

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:12 pm
Personally, I just judge based in good & bad kamma performed, as taught in the Holy Koran, where, on the Day of Judgment, each atoms weight of good & evil performed will be weighed up.
So you are a Muslim?

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DooDoot
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by DooDoot »

DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:19 pm
So you are a Muslim?

:jumping: OK, the below:
Beings are the owners of their actions, heir to their actions, born of their actions, related to their actions, and have their actions as their arbitrator. Whatever they do, for good or for evil, to that will they fall heir.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by aflatun »

DNS wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:19 pm
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:12 pm
Personally, I just judge based in good & bad kamma performed, as taught in the Holy Koran, where, on the Day of Judgment, each atoms weight of good & evil performed will be weighed up.
So you are a Muslim?
My guess is he's just doing his usual great job of putting things in the language of that tradition, and representing that tradition accurately and honestly. My two cents as a born Muslim who (by choice) actually walked that path(and yes there is a path), studied and practiced it's ethical, contemplative and wisdom components with masters and scholars of the living tradition and credits those endeavors with preparing me to finally embrace the Buddha.

Keep up the good work DooDoot :twothumbsup:

I just violated the 0th precept: posting in a political thread. Goddamnit.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by chownah »

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:39 pm
I don't think its wrong to hate evil!!
Which will suffer most, you or evil?
chownah

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Bundokji »

aflatun wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:52 pm
Keep up the good work DooDoot :twothumbsup:
I second that :heart:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Sam Vara »

chownah wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:48 am
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:39 pm
I don't think its wrong to hate evil!!
Which will suffer most, you or evil?
chownah
:goodpost: I like it!

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by lyndon taylor »

I think I will suffer less if I hate evil, If I love evil I'm bound to suffer!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by binocular »

Does Mara suffer?

Should we sympathize with Mara?

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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Aversion is akusala, whether one regards it as righteous or not.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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