Trump. And why I hate him.

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:40 am

Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:36 am
...it turns out that the author did not intend it to be taken that way but in fact it is a quintessential example of whataboutism.
How can something be "a quintessential example" of something it isn't?

:shrug:

Oh well... back to hating on Trump.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by alan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:56 am

Decent people should hate him. It's your job to make things better. Allowing this Crazy Man to rule is like running away and hiding. I will not run away. I will not hide. This God Dam Crazy Man needs to be fought. I will fight. And those who support him need to be called out. Because Trump is a God Dam Crazy Man.

Hoelzle/Schiff 2020. Make America Sane Again.

chownah
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by chownah » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:38 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:40 am
Greetings Chownah,
chownah wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:36 am
...it turns out that the author did not intend it to be taken that way but in fact it is a quintessential example of whataboutism.
How can something be "a quintessential example" of something it isn't?

:shrug:

Oh well... back to hating on Trump.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
The post is an example of whataboutism and it is a perfect example in every pertinent respect so you see it is a quintessential example of what it is.
:focus:
chownah

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retrofuturist
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:57 am

Greetings Chownah,

Actually, no. What gets called "whataboutism" is a crude blend of, either:

- A "red herring" :redherring: (which is not good)
- Holding people accountable the same moral standards (which is good)

Mistaking what is good for bad, and bad for good, is a fault in the Dhamma.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by chownah » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:33 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:57 am
Greetings Chownah,

Actually, no. What gets called "whataboutism" is a crude blend of, either:

- A "red herring" :redherring: (which is not good)
- Holding people accountable the same moral standards (which is good)

Mistaking what is good for bad, and bad for good, is a fault in the Dhamma.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Seems like you have changed your mind and now you have answered your own question "How can something be "a quintessential example" of something it isn't?"
Is it now clear to you that in fact the post is a quintessential example of something it is?
It seems to fit within your parameters here based on your own definition of "whataboutism".
chownah
edit: Do you think that manas is in need of charity? (since you seem to want to stigmatize me as being uncharitable) I thought we had a pretty good exchange and manas's most recent post shows a heads up attitude....not like someone who needs to be given special treatment. Maybe I was wrong to treat manas like an fully formed adult human being and maybe I should take your attitude and treat manas like a weakling.
chownah

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Sam Vara
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:42 pm

Here's an interesting little snippet from that Trump-hating newspaper The Guardian:
North Korea has reopened a vital line of communication with South Korea, raising hopes of a diplomatic thaw days after Kim Jong-un said he would consider sending his country’s athletes to next month’s Winter Olympics, to be held just south of the border.

Hours after Donald Trump again baited the North Korean leader on Twitter – this time with a boast about the size and efficacy of his nuclear button – Pyongyang said it would reactivate a telephone hotline at the truce village of Panmunjom at 6.30am GMT on Wednesday.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nnel-seoul

The Guardian makes no comment on this strange state of affairs: how a couple of days ago Trump's robust, uncompromising and very public mockery of Kim Jong-un was guaranteed to exacerbate the crisis and was evidence moreover of Trump's insanity, yet now we have the apparent opposite happening. Could things have just got a little bit safer for millions of people because someone is tough enough to take an uncompromising position?

WWOD? ("What would Obama do?")

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Mr Man
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Mr Man » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:54 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:42 pm
The Guardian makes no comment on this strange state of affairs: how a couple of days ago Trump's robust, uncompromising and very public mockery of Kim Jong-un was guaranteed to exacerbate the crisis and was evidence moreover of Trump's insanity, yet now we have the apparent opposite happening. Could things have just got a little bit safer for millions of people because someone is tough enough to take an uncompromising position?
N. Korea had made moves towards talks with S. Korea prior to Trumps "bigger button" tweet.

As North and South Korea Begin to Talk, Trump Watches From Sidelines

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/p ... korea.html

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Sam Vara
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:18 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:54 pm

N. Korea had made moves towards talks with S. Korea prior to Trumps "bigger button" tweet.
They had, but not before Trump had already made some very tough noises about Kim Jong-un which had the Guardian editorial staff talking about his rashness. And one would think that if Trump's tweets were unhelpful, one about his nuclear button would have upset the whole deal.

Sometimes, resolution is what's needed in a crisis. Again, WWOD?

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manas
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by manas » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:42 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:33 am
Maybe I was wrong to treat manas like an fully formed adult human being and maybe I should take your attitude and treat manas like a weakling.
chownah
I'm getting a lot of notifications, now I see why.

I admit my aversion to Hillary had a bit to do with why I posted the original video. But so did the fact that, from the election to the present day, the mainstream media have hardly ever given Trump a chance, hardly ever. I feel it's been very one-sided, and I don't like it how, even when he does the right thing, many are so opposed no matter what, they deride it anyway. Just trying to redress what I feel is an imbalance.

Trump can be badly spoken, has been uncouth, rude on occasion, etc. But I think he pretends less than many other politicians, yes, especially he is much less fake than Hillary, who I still feel is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Let's look more at what he does, less at how he speaks. Thus far, I'm upset by his recognition of Jerusalem, as the capital of Israel, which he appears to have done, to secure the zionist / fundamentalist christian vote in America, and his weakening of environmental protection laws, for example. But regarding waging foreign wars, he hasn't come close to Obama's expansion of the so-called 'war on terror'. His haters don't seem to recognize that. Let's look at what he actually does, rather than the often 'unpresidential' nature of his speech. Obama spoke charmingly and eloquently, but some of his actions (decisions, orders) were utterly appalling, in terms of loss of life, killing of civilians, etc:
Obama embraced the US drone programme, overseeing more strikes in his first year than Bush carried out during his entire presidency. A total of 563 strikes, largely by drones, targeted Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen during Obama’s two terms, compared to 57 strikes under Bush. Between 384 and 807 civilians were killed in those countries, according to reports logged by the Bureau. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/s ... -than-bush
...but at least he was 'presidential' in his manner and bearing! (irony intended).
Last edited by manas on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

pulga
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by pulga » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:16 pm

On the campaign trail, President Trump famously asked African Americans: “What do you have to lose?” by voting for him. He promised his economic agenda would lead to more jobs and higher wages for everyone.
Black unemployment falls to lowest level on record

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Mr Man
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Re: Trump. And why I hate him.

Post by Mr Man » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:00 pm

manas wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:42 pm
But regarding waging foreign wars, he hasn't come close to Obama's expansion of the so-called 'war on terror'. His haters don't seem to recognize that. Let's look at what he actually does, rather than the often 'unpresidential' nature of his speech. Obama spoke charmingly and eloquently, but some of his actions (decisions, orders) were utterly appalling, in terms of loss of life, killing of civilians, etc:
Hi manas
Did you see this?
US counter terror air strikes double in Trump's first year
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/s ... first-year

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