Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

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L.N.
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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
george soros? until now I have only a vague knowledge of his name and it isn't from here can you show examples and explain them?
Please see OP.
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
If by "scolded by the admin team" you mean sanctions are brought against members who disagree? then non-sense. if you mean people who happen to be mods and admin engage in topics then please show examples of them scolding.
The fact that it hasn't happened to you personally doesn't mean it does not happen. There are ample examples (as chownah can attest). You will find some in the Right Speech topics noted above.
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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm

chownah wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:55 am
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:09 am
chownah wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:33 am
L.n.,
Where are buddhists who hold far right political views and who believe in engaged buddhism supposed to go to express/discuss their views?
chownah
Why can't people with views on the far right or far left discuss here without calling into question the character of anyone who disagrees? Some of the discussion here is just baffling in its hostility and unfriendliness.
This is another matter entirely. The topic is about the predominance of far right political views and it seems that you are now talking about quality of discussion....two entirely different things and it is wrong to conflate them. Not all far right politicos engage in perverted discussion.
Not really. Please see comment above re the sense that those on the left and those on the right sometimes feel they are from different cultures. This is reflected here and is on-topic to this discussion.
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
It does seem that in the usa the far right engages in questionable discussion techniques and I could explain why but it would just raise a howl by many here and not accomplish anything. If you look at the segment of the population that the far right shock jocks appeal to and think about what human characteristics might be in play on both the presenters and the audience it might become clear.....knowing a bit about the history of far right politics in the usa at the grass roots level helps too.
I agree.
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uresabba gunākaro


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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:56 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:04 am
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
What do you think the goal of this thread is?
Apart from, as I said, inviting more political argument and contention? For you to continue to cause drama and :stirthepot: .

:popcorn:
No.
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uresabba gunākaro


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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:58 pm

robertk wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:22 am
William F. Buckley — 'Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views"



What yells out at the US public . . . is the incandescent hypocrisy of so many people who, in the name of free speech, persecute its practitioners if their opinions are conservative.

:tongue:
This is labeling and an attempt to smear liberals and, by implication, those who speak about this issue. I thought this is the type of comment which Rule 2 prohibits.
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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:40 pm
Phena wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:05 am
Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?
L.N. I think you maybe confusing the views of the majority of the participants with those of the Admin/Mod team, but therein lies your answer.
Some people perceive _anyone_ in some position of power as authoritarian/right-wing.
Good point.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by DNS » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:37 pm

L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 am
I see lots of political-contentious topics being created by a user by the name of L.N. :tongue:
False. I have created topics regarding Right Speech in the Sila section.
Saying it is "false" doesn't make it false. You have created numerous meta-discussions, contentious topics, political topics. You say you want to discuss the Dhamma, but it is actually you who is creating all of these "quality of discussions" threads.
L.N. wrote:
DNS wrote:One of the characteristics of creating a stereotype is that of not noticing (either consciously or sub-consciously) things (such as views) that agree with yours while noticing those that are opposed to you in greater detail and consideration. Or put another way; ignoring those cases which don't fit your preconceived view and only noticing those cases that fit your view, thereby, creating the stereotype.
Right, we should avoid this. How is this comment of yours on topic?
Of course it is on topic. You made a claim that DW is being dominated by right-wingers and you are obviously creating a stereotype, ignoring cases which don't fit your preconceived view. I notice you didn't comment on the polls I showed which demonstrate the majority of DW members are left-wing and yes, they are recent polls.
Mkoll wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:04 am
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
What do you think the goal of this thread is?
Apart from, as I said, inviting more political argument and contention? For you to continue to cause drama and :stirthepot: .
:popcorn:
Yes, exactly the point of these threads is to cause more drama; some people feed off drama and conflict. :shrug:

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Phena » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:54 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:40 pm
Phena wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:05 am
Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?
L.N. I think you maybe confusing the views of the majority of the participants with those of the Admin/Mod team, but therein lies your answer.
Some people perceive _anyone_ in some position of power as authoritarian/right-wing.
Yes, _some_ people do.

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:21 pm

L.N. wrote:...
Hi L.N.

For the sake of clarity, could you please tell me your definitions of:
  • Conservative
  • Right Wing
  • Far Right
  • Alt-Right
  • Liberal
  • Left Wing
  • Far Left
  • 'CTRL-Left'/'Alt-left'*
*This is a relatively new term without the currency of 'Alt-Right'. I would say that examples of the 'Alt-Left' would be (contemporary) Antifa or Militant Tendency, but I imagine I could be debated on this.

If you could do it without giving any references as well, that would be good - I want to understand the distinctions you are operating with.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by cjmacie » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 am

DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:27 am
Just a little over a year ago a poll was made for DW members' choices for POTUS. That thread was closed just a little over 6 months ago. (So it's a fairly recent thread and poll.)

47% chose Hillary Clinton
17% chose Jill Stein

So that's 64% of DW members choosing a left wing or left of center candidate (by U.S. standards)

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=27053
Perhaps a more "silent majority" around here?

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:27 am

Greetings,
cjmacie wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 am
Perhaps a more "silent majority" around here?
Well they certainly don't keep silent when they're doing the majority of the complaining!

8-)

I find that whilst those on either side will be largely unimpressed by arguments made by the other side, there's only one side who seems adamant that this forum could and indeed should, prevent the other from being given the same liberties of speech that they themselves receive. That partiality doesn't sit very well with me. After all, whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."? It seems a long lost liberal virtue, and I find the concomitant loss of tolerance and dwindling commitment to free speech to be a shame.

Frankly, I think the reason some people find this forum's deliberately even-handed treatment so confronting, is that they've become accustomed to surrounding themselves (either through their choice of media, or social circles) with views that align so closely to their own, that when they are exposed to a broader range of views outside of that echo chamber, they find it "problematic". Chances are they've also bought into their side's decades long propaganda, which insists that those who disagree with them could only do so because they're uncaring, greedy, mean, self-centred, corrupt, morally inferior, racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, evil, ignorant, uneducated and so on. Unsurprisingly then, to those who have bought into the uncharitably negative stereotypes propagated by their own side (stereotypes which are not at all aligned with what the Buddha taught) encountering Buddhists who are from the other side of politics, could well be rather triggering and frightening. (Projection and doom mongering goes a long way, it seems... and I'm still waiting to hear what views expressed by non-leftist members are really as terrifying as we're led to believe they are, by our local serial complainants.)

Maybe it's good that those self-styled echo chambers are falling apart, even if the cognitive dissonance involved in that dissolution is harder for some to deal with than others. Maybe a true exhange of ideas might become possible once resistance for resistance's sake falls back out of vogue.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by DNS » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 am

cjmacie wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 am
Perhaps a more "silent majority" around here?
I don't know, not necessarily, for example I see members supporting Bernie Sanders (esp during the election year), Jill Stein, that global warming is real, supporting gay marriage, supporting pro-choice for women regarding abortions, speaking out against Myanmar's treatment of Rohingya, etc.

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 am

L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:53 pm
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
george soros? until now I have only a vague knowledge of his name and it isn't from here can you show examples and explain them?
Please see OP.
examples in threads with explanation?
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
If by "scolded by the admin team" you mean sanctions are brought against members who disagree? then non-sense. if you mean people who happen to be mods and admin engage in topics then please show examples of them scolding.
The fact that it hasn't happened to you personally doesn't mean it does not happen. There are ample examples (as chownah can attest). You will find some in the Right Speech topics noted above.
Again I asked for examples of scolding.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:00 am

L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
It does seem that in the usa the far right engages in questionable discussion techniques and I could explain why but it would just raise a howl by many here and not accomplish anything. If you look at the segment of the population that the far right shock jocks appeal to and think about what human characteristics might be in play on both the presenters and the audience it might become clear.....knowing a bit about the history of far right politics in the usa at the grass roots level helps too.
I agree.
I didn't write that
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am

Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:09 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am
Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
😂
Yes it is a falsely attributed quote.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 am

DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:37 pm
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 am
I see lots of political-contentious topics being created by a user by the name of L.N. :tongue:
False. I have created topics regarding Right Speech in the Sila section.
Saying it is "false" doesn't make it false. You have created numerous meta-discussions, contentious topics, political topics. You say you want to discuss the Dhamma, but it is actually you who is creating all of these "quality of discussions" threads.
Saying it is true doesn't make it true. I have created Topics about Right Speech. Individuals who have expressed fringe conservative views have invaded these topics to make highly personal judgements. As I stated, at first I was confused, but now I realize it probably is because any mention of Right Speech is perceived as an effort to promote a liberal PC agenda. You never answered my question about the Right Speech topics I created, and the totally inappropriate responses received. These were intended as friendly, serious Dhamma discussions. A further example: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30610

These became "meta discussions" and "contentious topics" when individuals who have expressed fringe conservative views (such as your esteemed administrator retrofuturist) invaded them for the purpose of hijacking and ruining them.

L.N. wrote:
DNS wrote:One of the characteristics of creating a stereotype is that of not noticing (either consciously or sub-consciously) things (such as views) that agree with yours while noticing those that are opposed to you in greater detail and consideration. Or put another way; ignoring those cases which don't fit your preconceived view and only noticing those cases that fit your view, thereby, creating the stereotype.
Right, we should avoid this. How is this comment of yours on topic?
Of course it is on topic. You made a claim that DW is being dominated by right-wingers and you are obviously creating a stereotype, ignoring cases which don't fit your preconceived view. I notice you didn't comment on the polls I showed which demonstrate the majority of DW members are left-wing and yes, they are recent polls.[/quote]This is your personal opinion of my state of mind ("ignoring") and as such is off-topic, irrelevant, and arguably a violation of TOS. I am not ignoring anything. You can plainly see the manner in which the Team gives great support to efforts to smear those who do not share retrofuturist's fringe conservative views.
Mkoll wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:04 am
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
What do you think the goal of this thread is?
Apart from, as I said, inviting more political argument and contention? For you to continue to cause drama and :stirthepot: .
:popcorn:
DNS wrote:Yes, exactly the point of these threads is to cause more drama; some people feed off drama and conflict. :shrug:
This is entirely, completely false. The point of the thread is not to cause more drama. Your insinuation that I "feed off drama and conflict" is off-topic, irrelevant, and playing the person, not the ball. Are you by any chance ignoring the following discussion? viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30737

Or maybe you would like to join in the hijacking of that Topic, as well, just as your administrator retrofuturist is doing with his posts.

It anyone feeds off of drama and conflict, as you put it, it is your administrator retrofuturist and yourself, as well as your fans who can't seem to tell the difference between civil discussion and name-calling.

It is fairly obvious you give far less effort to creating a friendly, mutually respectful environment with regard to individuals who do not share your political views.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:26 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:27 am
... Frankly, I think the reason some people find this forum's deliberately even-handed treatment so confronting, is that they've become accustomed to surrounding themselves (either through their choice of media, or social circles) with views that align so closely to their own, that when they are exposed to a broader range of views outside of that echo chamber, they find it "problematic"....
That's a hoot. You know nothing about me, and your continued efforts to psychoanalyze those with whom you disagree is absurd. I repeatedly have welcomed opposing views, made positive comments about contributions from those with whom I disagree, etc. I see people here try very hard to be polite to you. In exchange, I have seen you engage in name-calling, character smearing, etc.

Your method of discussion is confrontational and unfriendly. And you defend it by trying to smear the character of anyone who point is out to you. As stated elsewhere, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. Here, you have the platform. You are free to be the bully. Enjoy.

I really wish there was more friendly Dhamma discussion here. I understand you will prevent this from occurring to the extent contributions come from those with whom you disagree politically.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 am

Greetings L.N.,

You have an amazing ability to take general comments and observations and uncharitably construe them as all manner of psychoanalysis, smears, bullying, unfriendliness, name calling and personalized comments.

How about you just ease up and stop trying so hard to be perpetually offended? Be cool.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:38 am

Cittasanto wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:09 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am
Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
😂
Yes it is a falsely attributed quote.
It was erroneously attributed. It was from chownah.
chownah wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:55 am
It does seem that in the usa the far right engages in questionable discussion techniques and I could explain why but it would just raise a howl by many here and not accomplish anything. If you look at the segment of the population that the far right shock jocks appeal to and think about what human characteristics might be in play on both the presenters and the audience it might become clear.....knowing a bit about the history of far right politics in the usa at the grass roots level helps too.
chownah
Cittasanto wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 am
Again I asked for examples of scolding.
I am not going to cut and paste all of the highly negative commentary that has been directed at me, at chownah, and at selective others on this forum who, as far as I can tell, have tried to be polite and contribute to Dhamma discussion. You can get a taste of it by scrolling through the topics on Muslims, and the topics on right speech.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:48 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 am
You have an amazing ability to take general comments and observations and uncharitably construe them as all manner of psychoanalysis, smears, bullying, unfriendliness, name calling and personalized comments.

How about you just ease up and stop trying so hard to be perpetually offended? Be cool.
Right, isn't that precisely the reason you banned me for a week in connection with this Topic: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=30698, namely, because you thought I was smearing you.

Again, a double standard. You can dish it out but you can't take it.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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