Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by DNS » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 am

cjmacie wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:23 am
Perhaps a more "silent majority" around here?
I don't know, not necessarily, for example I see members supporting Bernie Sanders (esp during the election year), Jill Stein, that global warming is real, supporting gay marriage, supporting pro-choice for women regarding abortions, speaking out against Myanmar's treatment of Rohingya, etc.

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 am

L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:53 pm
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
george soros? until now I have only a vague knowledge of his name and it isn't from here can you show examples and explain them?
Please see OP.
examples in threads with explanation?
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
If by "scolded by the admin team" you mean sanctions are brought against members who disagree? then non-sense. if you mean people who happen to be mods and admin engage in topics then please show examples of them scolding.
The fact that it hasn't happened to you personally doesn't mean it does not happen. There are ample examples (as chownah can attest). You will find some in the Right Speech topics noted above.
Again I asked for examples of scolding.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:00 am

L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:55 pm
Cittasanto wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am
It does seem that in the usa the far right engages in questionable discussion techniques and I could explain why but it would just raise a howl by many here and not accomplish anything. If you look at the segment of the population that the far right shock jocks appeal to and think about what human characteristics might be in play on both the presenters and the audience it might become clear.....knowing a bit about the history of far right politics in the usa at the grass roots level helps too.
I agree.
I didn't write that
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am

Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:09 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am
Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
😂
Yes it is a falsely attributed quote.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:22 am

DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:37 pm
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
DNS wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:10 am
I see lots of political-contentious topics being created by a user by the name of L.N. :tongue:
False. I have created topics regarding Right Speech in the Sila section.
Saying it is "false" doesn't make it false. You have created numerous meta-discussions, contentious topics, political topics. You say you want to discuss the Dhamma, but it is actually you who is creating all of these "quality of discussions" threads.
Saying it is true doesn't make it true. I have created Topics about Right Speech. Individuals who have expressed fringe conservative views have invaded these topics to make highly personal judgements. As I stated, at first I was confused, but now I realize it probably is because any mention of Right Speech is perceived as an effort to promote a liberal PC agenda. You never answered my question about the Right Speech topics I created, and the totally inappropriate responses received. These were intended as friendly, serious Dhamma discussions. A further example: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30610

These became "meta discussions" and "contentious topics" when individuals who have expressed fringe conservative views (such as your esteemed administrator retrofuturist) invaded them for the purpose of hijacking and ruining them.

L.N. wrote:
DNS wrote:One of the characteristics of creating a stereotype is that of not noticing (either consciously or sub-consciously) things (such as views) that agree with yours while noticing those that are opposed to you in greater detail and consideration. Or put another way; ignoring those cases which don't fit your preconceived view and only noticing those cases that fit your view, thereby, creating the stereotype.
Right, we should avoid this. How is this comment of yours on topic?
Of course it is on topic. You made a claim that DW is being dominated by right-wingers and you are obviously creating a stereotype, ignoring cases which don't fit your preconceived view. I notice you didn't comment on the polls I showed which demonstrate the majority of DW members are left-wing and yes, they are recent polls.[/quote]This is your personal opinion of my state of mind ("ignoring") and as such is off-topic, irrelevant, and arguably a violation of TOS. I am not ignoring anything. You can plainly see the manner in which the Team gives great support to efforts to smear those who do not share retrofuturist's fringe conservative views.
Mkoll wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:04 am
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 am
What do you think the goal of this thread is?
Apart from, as I said, inviting more political argument and contention? For you to continue to cause drama and :stirthepot: .
:popcorn:
DNS wrote:Yes, exactly the point of these threads is to cause more drama; some people feed off drama and conflict. :shrug:
This is entirely, completely false. The point of the thread is not to cause more drama. Your insinuation that I "feed off drama and conflict" is off-topic, irrelevant, and playing the person, not the ball. Are you by any chance ignoring the following discussion? viewtopic.php?f=42&t=30737

Or maybe you would like to join in the hijacking of that Topic, as well, just as your administrator retrofuturist is doing with his posts.

It anyone feeds off of drama and conflict, as you put it, it is your administrator retrofuturist and yourself, as well as your fans who can't seem to tell the difference between civil discussion and name-calling.

It is fairly obvious you give far less effort to creating a friendly, mutually respectful environment with regard to individuals who do not share your political views.
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uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:26 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:27 am
... Frankly, I think the reason some people find this forum's deliberately even-handed treatment so confronting, is that they've become accustomed to surrounding themselves (either through their choice of media, or social circles) with views that align so closely to their own, that when they are exposed to a broader range of views outside of that echo chamber, they find it "problematic"....
That's a hoot. You know nothing about me, and your continued efforts to psychoanalyze those with whom you disagree is absurd. I repeatedly have welcomed opposing views, made positive comments about contributions from those with whom I disagree, etc. I see people here try very hard to be polite to you. In exchange, I have seen you engage in name-calling, character smearing, etc.

Your method of discussion is confrontational and unfriendly. And you defend it by trying to smear the character of anyone who point is out to you. As stated elsewhere, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. Here, you have the platform. You are free to be the bully. Enjoy.

I really wish there was more friendly Dhamma discussion here. I understand you will prevent this from occurring to the extent contributions come from those with whom you disagree politically.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 am

Greetings L.N.,

You have an amazing ability to take general comments and observations and uncharitably construe them as all manner of psychoanalysis, smears, bullying, unfriendliness, name calling and personalized comments.

How about you just ease up and stop trying so hard to be perpetually offended? Be cool.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:38 am

Cittasanto wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:09 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:48 am
Greetings Cittasanto,

Are you suggesting it's.... "fake news"?

:quote:

Metta,
Paul. :)
😂
Yes it is a falsely attributed quote.
It was erroneously attributed. It was from chownah.
chownah wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:55 am
It does seem that in the usa the far right engages in questionable discussion techniques and I could explain why but it would just raise a howl by many here and not accomplish anything. If you look at the segment of the population that the far right shock jocks appeal to and think about what human characteristics might be in play on both the presenters and the audience it might become clear.....knowing a bit about the history of far right politics in the usa at the grass roots level helps too.
chownah
Cittasanto wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:57 am
Again I asked for examples of scolding.
I am not going to cut and paste all of the highly negative commentary that has been directed at me, at chownah, and at selective others on this forum who, as far as I can tell, have tried to be polite and contribute to Dhamma discussion. You can get a taste of it by scrolling through the topics on Muslims, and the topics on right speech.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:48 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:32 am
You have an amazing ability to take general comments and observations and uncharitably construe them as all manner of psychoanalysis, smears, bullying, unfriendliness, name calling and personalized comments.

How about you just ease up and stop trying so hard to be perpetually offended? Be cool.
Right, isn't that precisely the reason you banned me for a week in connection with this Topic: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=30698, namely, because you thought I was smearing you.

Again, a double standard. You can dish it out but you can't take it.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:59 am

Greetings L.N.,

You have already had the complaints process explained to you.

Incessant off-topic bitterness is not the process.

:focus:

Thank you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:01 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:21 pm
L.N. wrote:...
Hi L.N.

For the sake of clarity, could you please tell me your definitions of:
  • Conservative
  • Right Wing
  • Far Right
  • Alt-Right
  • Liberal
  • Left Wing
  • Far Left
  • 'CTRL-Left'/'Alt-left'*
*This is a relatively new term without the currency of 'Alt-Right'. I would say that examples of the 'Alt-Left' would be (contemporary) Antifa or Militant Tendency, but I imagine I could be debated on this.

If you could do it without giving any references as well, that would be good - I want to understand the distinctions you are operating with.
Not easy to do, but following is a high-level summary, with which reasonable people may disagree.

[*] Conservative -- Broadly speaking, the view of a limited role for government, limited social programs, limited controls on the marketplace, often promoting traditional social values. There are of course exceptions, as not everybody fits into a box. See wikipedia re same.

[*] Right Wing -- conservative

[*] Far Right -- leaning more toward an authoritarian or otherwise exclusive style of conservative government which takes extreme or near-extreme positions. Often anti-others (e.g., anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-PC, anti-liberal, etc.) See wikipedia.

[*] Alt-Right -- Broadly, an effort to rebrand far right or fringe right conservatives, usually associated with neo-Nazis. However, U.S. President Trump appears to look toward the Alt-Right as a part of his base. See wikipedia.

[*] Liberal -- Broadly speaking, the view of a more expansive role for government, more social programs, more controls on the marketplace, often promoting modern social values. There are of course exceptions. You can find a wikipedia article about this term.

[*] Left Wing -- liberal.

[*] Far Left -- leaning more toward an authoritarian or otherwise exclusive style of liberal government which takes extreme or near-extreme positions. Often displaying intolerance for other views. You can look for wikipedia or other sources.

[*] 'CTRL-Left'/'Alt-left'* -- not familiar with these terms.

By the way, the last time I obliged a request like this, it was a set-up so that the person who made the request would have an opportunity to shoot down everything. The above in no way is intended as an exhaustive or authoritative summary, but just a quick overview with which others may certainly reasonably disagree.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by L.N. » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:05 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:59 am
Greetings L.N.,

You have already had the complaints process explained to you.

Incessant off-topic bitterness is not the process.

:focus:

Thank you.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Yes, and it already has been explained to you that in this instance I am not complaining. See the following:
L.N. wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:19 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:08 am
Greetings L.N.,

:console:

May I draw your attention to: Dhamma Wheel complaints procedure

Please utilise this process if you feel there's a problem with how this forum is moderated.
Dhamma Wheel complaints procedure wrote:Please do not publicly complain about moderation, as that is disruptive to the forum and is not the appropriate method for resolving such disputes.
Metta,
Paul. :)
Yes, however in this instance I am not complaining. As I frequently have stated, I defer to the Team, and I respect your right to interpret and apply TOS as you wish. I do not own or run this forum. This is not a complaint. Rather, it is a discussion of a contemporary threat to free speech.
Your continued efforts to psychoanalyze me and comment about my perceived state of mind ("bitterness") is off-topic and a further effort to smear. I understand this will only embolden you to crank up the volume on your commentary about my perceived character, all of which is off-topic, would not be tolerated by you from others, and a violation of your own TOS. Again, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:06 am

Greetings L.N.,

For the love of Buddha, please cease your overwrought behavioural analyses and get back to the topic. I honestly don't know how to get this through your head.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Why are far-right political views so predominant on DW?

Post by DooDoot » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:12 am

L.N. wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:01 am
[*] Conservative -- Broadly speaking, the view of a limited role for government, limited social programs, limited controls on the marketplace, often promoting traditional social values. There are of course exceptions, as not everybody fits into a box. See wikipedia re same.
limited role for government - probably not buddhist; while buddhism would not support big govt, it does support govt rather than law of the jungle

limited social programs - yes & no buddhist; buddhism supports self-reliance but also a charity safety net

promoting traditional social values - very buddhist

[*] Far Right -- leaning more toward an authoritarian or otherwise exclusive style of conservative government which takes extreme or near-extreme positions. Often anti-others (e.g., anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-PC, anti-liberal, etc.) See wikipedia.
authoritarian or otherwise exclusive style of conservative government - can be buddhist, such as universal monarch

anti-immigration - can be buddhist, since buddhism teaches to preserve culture - most buddhist countries are anti-immigration

anti-abortion - definitely buddhist

anti-PC - definitely buddhist since right speech is not PC

anti-liberal - definitely buddhist; DN 31 says a liberal is a bad companion
[*] Alt-Right -- Broadly, an effort to rebrand far right or fringe right conservatives, usually associated with neo-Nazis. However, U.S. President Trump appears to look toward the Alt-Right as a part of his base. See wikipedia.
Nazism was militaristic, therefore non-Buddhist

however, Nazism was family, community & nation orientated & anti-usury, which was Buddhist
[*] Liberal -- Broadly speaking, the view of a more expansive role for government, more social programs, more controls on the marketplace, often promoting modern social values. There are of course exceptions. You can find a wikipedia article about this term.
Buddhism is against sexual liberalism, promiscuity, abortion, etc.

Buddhism encourages self-reliance rather than dependence of govt charity, even though buddhism supports a charity safety-net
[*] Far Left -- leaning more toward an authoritarian or otherwise exclusive style of liberal government which takes extreme or near-extreme positions. Often displaying intolerance for other views. You can look for wikipedia or other sources.
The violence of Communism?

;)
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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