The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:31 am

Image
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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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lyndon taylor
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:57 am

Really with the huge amount of evidence for the Rohingya genocide it is not much different form Holocaust denial if you deny it. Definitely what I would call a conspiracy theory.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:01 am

Dr. Jacques P. Leider: " ...Rohingya is not an ethnic concept."

History Behind Rakhine State Conflict

https://www.irrawaddy.com/from-the-arch ... flict.html
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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:13 am

Rohingya is what the people call themselves, irrespective of what the Myanmar government wants to call them, from Wilipedia;

Nomenclature[edit]
The modern term Rohingya emerged from colonial and pre-colonial terms Rooinga and Rwangya.[69] The Rohingya refer to themselves as Ruáingga /ɾuájŋɡa/. In the dominant languages of the region, they are known as rui hang gya (following the MLCTS) in Burmese: ရိုဟင်ဂျာ /ɹòhɪ̀ɴd͡ʑà/ and Rohingga in Bengali: রোহিঙ্গা /ɹohiŋɡa/. The term "Rohingya" may come from Rakhanga or Roshanga, the words for the state of Arakan. The word Rohingya would then mean "inhabitant of Rohang", which was the early Muslim name for Arakan.[70][71][72] Andrew Tan argues it comes from the Arabic word Raham (God's blessing) and speculates that early Muslims in Arakan referred to themselves as "God's blessed people".[73]

The usage of the term Rohingya has been historically documented prior to the British Raj. In 1799, Francis Buchanan-Hamilton wrote an article called "A Comparative Vocabulary of Some of the Languages Spoken in the Burma Empire".[74][75] Among the native groups of Arakan, he wrote are the: "Mohammedans, who have long settled in Arakan, and who call themselves Rooinga, or natives of Arakan."[74] The Classical Journal of 1811 identified "Rooinga" as one of the languages spoken in the "Burmah Empire". In 1815, Johann Severin Vater listed "Ruinga" as an ethnic group with a distinct language in a compendium of languages published in German.[76]

In 1936, when Burma was still under British rule, the "Rohingya Jam’iyyat al Ulama" was founded in Arakan.[77][78][note 1]

According to Jacques Leider, the Rohingya were referred to as "Chittagonians" during the British colonial period, and it was not controversial to refer to them as "Bengalis" until 1990s.[81] Leider also states that "there is no international consensus" on the use of the term Rohingya, as they are often called "Rohingya Muslims", "Muslim Arakanese" and "Burmese Muslims".[82][note 2] Others such as anthropologist Christina Fink uses Rohingya not as an ethnic identifier but as a political one.[83] Leider believes the Rohingya is a political movement that started in the 1950s to create "an autonomous Muslim zone" in Rakhine.[84]

The government of Myanmar Prime Minister U Nu, when Myanmar was a democracy from 1948-1962, used the term "Rohingya".[85] When the Mayu Frontier District was created covering Rohingya-majority areas, the term "Rohingya" was recognized by the Burmese government. The term was broadcast on Burmese radio and was used in the speeches of Burmese rulers.[43] A UNHCR report on refugees caused by Operation King Dragon referred to the victims as "Bengali Muslims (called Rohingyas)".[86] Nevertheless, the term Rohingya wasn't widely used until the 1990s.[85][86][87]

Today the use of the name "Rohingya" is polarized. The government of Myanmar refuses to use the name.[85] In the 2014 census, the Myanmar government forced the Rohingya to identify themselves as "Bengali".[88] Many Rohingya see the denial of their name similar to denying their basic rights,[89] and the U.N. Special Rapporteur on human rights in Myanmar has agreed.[39] Jacques Leider writes that many Muslims in Rakhine simply prefer to call themselves "Muslim Arakanese" or "Muslims coming from Rakhine" instead of "Rohingya".[82][75][90] The United States embassy in Rangoon continues to use the name "Rohingya".[88]
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Pseudobabble » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:48 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:13 am
According to Jacques Leider, the Rohingya were referred to as "Chittagonians" during the British colonial period, and it was not controversial to refer to them as "Bengalis" until 1990s.[81] Leider also states that "there is no international consensus" on the use of the term Rohingya, as they are often called "Rohingya Muslims", "Muslim Arakanese" and "Burmese Muslims".[82][note 2] Others such as anthropologist Christina Fink uses Rohingya not as an ethnic identifier but as a political one.[83] Leider believes the Rohingya is a political movement that started in the 1950s to create "an autonomous Muslim zone" in Rakhine.[84]
Well there you have it - there is no clear consensus.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:59 am

Do you actually think that by discrediting the term Rohingya, you can minimalise the atrocitees that have been perpetrated against Rakhine state Muslims; Rohingya???
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Pseudobabble » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:59 am
Do you actually think that by discrediting the term Rohingya, you can minimalise the atrocitees that have been perpetrated against Rakhine state Muslims; Rohingya???
Lyndon,

1) The term isn't 'discredited', just questioned. Not the same.
2) You beg the question: what is being asked is whether the situation as reported, is how the situation really is - you assume it to be so. Nobody denies that villages have been burned, what people ask is who actually did the burning, and why.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

chownah
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:39 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:59 am
Do you actually think that by discrediting the term Rohingya, you can minimalise the atrocitees that have been perpetrated against Rakhine state Muslims; Rohingya???
Lyndon,

1) The term isn't 'discredited', just questioned. Not the same.
2) You beg the question: what is being asked is whether the situation as reported, is how the situation really is - you assume it to be so. Nobody denies that villages have been burned, what people ask is who actually did the burning, and why.
If you had been paying attention five years ago when the violence was originating you would have seen news reports on all the various news agencies (except for the ones controlled by the myanmar gov't) clearly showing buddhist civilians with some military presence burning rohingya homes/villages. How do we know they were buddhist civilians?....well they were sometimes accompanied by monks. Also, if you had been paying attention then you would have read the incendiary remarks made against the rohingya by a well known myanmar buddhist monk (I forget his name....you can find it easily...he was famous for encouraging the anti rohingya riots.) The reporting of these incidents was not controversial that I ever saw....except for what the gov't news agency put out.
chownah

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Pseudobabble » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:56 pm

chownah wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:39 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:59 am
Do you actually think that by discrediting the term Rohingya, you can minimalise the atrocitees that have been perpetrated against Rakhine state Muslims; Rohingya???
Lyndon,

1) The term isn't 'discredited', just questioned. Not the same.
2) You beg the question: what is being asked is whether the situation as reported, is how the situation really is - you assume it to be so. Nobody denies that villages have been burned, what people ask is who actually did the burning, and why.
If you had been paying attention five years ago when the violence was originating you would have seen news reports on all the various news agencies (except for the ones controlled by the myanmar gov't) clearly showing buddhist civilians with some military presence burning rohingya homes/villages. How do we know they were buddhist civilians?....well they were sometimes accompanied by monks. Also, if you had been paying attention then you would have read the incendiary remarks made against the rohingya by a well known myanmar buddhist monk (I forget his name....you can find it easily...he was famous for encouraging the anti rohingya riots.) The reporting of these incidents was not controversial that I ever saw....except for what the gov't news agency put out.
chownah
I have no way of knowing what the truth really is chownah, despite news reports and blah blah.

What I have said is that some people are questioning, and one cannot merely respond with 'its a fact' - you have to actually convince (well, you don't have to), and in order to do that, you need to address what they are saying. In the current case, Lyndon posted something which contained a part showing that some anthropologist believes that the term Rohingya designates a political movement - whether this really is the case, again, I don't know. But I think its clear that not everyone agrees on all matters in this topic, so to present it as crystal clear and beyond question is disingenuous.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by L.N. » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:21 pm

I am seriously considering turning off the News section. This forum should be no place for maligning a persecuted population of members of a different religion, in my opinion. Others may reasonably disagree.
:thinking:
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:08 pm

Greetings,

A reminder...
News#5. We do understand that politics can be an emotional or disruptive subject for some people. Therefore if you wish, you may voluntarily opt out of the News section by following the instructions here. Because participation in the News, Current Events & Politics section is entirely optional (and won't even show up in your "Active Topics" search, if you opt out), please refrain from meta-discussion in the form of complaining about the existence of such topics here at Dhamma Wheel. If they are burdensome to you personally, simply opt out.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:37 pm

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

chownah
Posts: 7020
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:02 am

Pseudobabble wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:56 pm
chownah wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:39 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:22 pm


Lyndon,

1) The term isn't 'discredited', just questioned. Not the same.
2) You beg the question: what is being asked is whether the situation as reported, is how the situation really is - you assume it to be so. Nobody denies that villages have been burned, what people ask is who actually did the burning, and why.
If you had been paying attention five years ago when the violence was originating you would have seen news reports on all the various news agencies (except for the ones controlled by the myanmar gov't) clearly showing buddhist civilians with some military presence burning rohingya homes/villages. How do we know they were buddhist civilians?....well they were sometimes accompanied by monks. Also, if you had been paying attention then you would have read the incendiary remarks made against the rohingya by a well known myanmar buddhist monk (I forget his name....you can find it easily...he was famous for encouraging the anti rohingya riots.) The reporting of these incidents was not controversial that I ever saw....except for what the gov't news agency put out.
chownah
I have no way of knowing what the truth really is chownah, despite news reports and blah blah.

What I have said is that some people are questioning, and one cannot merely respond with 'its a fact' - you have to actually convince (well, you don't have to), and in order to do that, you need to address what they are saying. In the current case, Lyndon posted something which contained a part showing that some anthropologist believes that the term Rohingya designates a political movement - whether this really is the case, again, I don't know. But I think its clear that not everyone agrees on all matters in this topic, so to present it as crystal clear and beyond question is disingenuous.
If you want to know then start researching the subject. Go get the news releases from five or so years ago....go find out the name of that monk who encouraged the violence and read what he said. Don't just sit here and whine that you don't know and then expect it is other people's job to inform you....you being the one who just whines that the information others give is inadequate.

But....do you really want to know or are you just trying to convince people that because you don't know it is impossible to know?....and if it is impossible to know (or course it is impossible to know anything for sure) then what?....inaction?.....paralysis?....ignore hitlere and the jews because you don't know and it is only news blah blah....ignore the lynching of blacks in the south because you don't know an it is only news blah blah blah?
chownah

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 am

Greetings Chownah,

Please calm down.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

chownah
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by chownah » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:34 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 am
Greetings Chownah,

Please calm down.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thank you for your concern....if I was more calmed down I would be sleeping....maybe you would rather I be sleeping! :shrug: :jumping:

You might also want me to calm down out of concern for pseudobabble.....but I'm not sure why you would be concerned about that because we really can't know about pseudobabble or his moods or reactions anymore than we can know about what is happening in the world by reading the news. This "pseudobabble" poster is unverifiable. To paraphrase pseudobabble, "I have no way of knowing what the truth really is retrofuturist, despite his posts and blah blah."

So, taking pseudobabbles perspective there is no reason to take his existence seriously at all in spite of his posts and blah blah.....so, retrofuturist, perhaps you should please calm down.

chownah

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:45 am

Greetings chownah,
chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:34 am
so, retrofuturist, perhaps you should please calm down.
Don't worry, I'm cool.

8-)

From my perspective, we're all against murder, all against rape, all against violence, all against dislocation and the wanton destruction of property. (Someone correct me here, if I'm wrong...)

I find it odd then, that there's so much...

"Team A is violating Team B!"
"No, Team B is violating Team A!"
"No, no, they're violating one another!"
"Oh, but what about Team C?!"

The "who" part is the most boring part, yet it's the aspect most people seem hung up on... and for what purpose? We know what's kusala, we know what's akusala... so why all the hyped-up drama, accusations and aspersions?

:shrug:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Pseudobabble » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:26 am

chownah wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:34 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 am
Greetings Chownah,

Please calm down.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Thank you for your concern....if I was more calmed down I would be sleeping....maybe you would rather I be sleeping! :shrug: :jumping:

You might also want me to calm down out of concern for pseudobabble.....but I'm not sure why you would be concerned about that because we really can't know about pseudobabble or his moods or reactions anymore than we can know about what is happening in the world by reading the news. This "pseudobabble" poster is unverifiable. To paraphrase pseudobabble, "I have no way of knowing what the truth really is retrofuturist, despite his posts and blah blah."

So, taking pseudobabbles perspective there is no reason to take his existence seriously at all in spite of his posts and blah blah.....so, retrofuturist, perhaps you should please calm down.

chownah

Now you're getting it! :D What can we really know for sure? Who am I anyway, or you, for that matter? Is what we read true, or is it just someone else's view?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:30 am

Greetings,
Pseudobabble wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:26 am
Now you're getting it! :D What can we really know for sure? Who am I anyway, or you, for that matter? Is what we read true, or is it just someone else's view?
Keep it quiet though....

:spy:

... or someone might call you a solipsist.

8-)

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Kusala
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by Kusala » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:54 am

Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

User avatar
lyndon taylor
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Re: The Truth About The Rohingya Lie

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:12 pm

Now for the mainstream ABC news from Australia, or "fake news" as some of our posters would have it!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-14/r ... sf/9260552
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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