Criticism of Islam

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events and politics.
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Caodemarte
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Caodemarte » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:48 pm

In what way is dedicated criticism of any religion “Connections to Other Paths?” This thread is not an exploration of the historic connections between Islam and Buddhism or a comparison of the various doctrines held by various Buddhists and Muslims. It seems only to exist to throw up ill-informed attacks on Islam, in this case, to stir up rancorous discussions and bigotry. Is that the purpose of DW? If not, why serve as host for these discussions? There are other darker and more sinister places for that.

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mikenz66
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Caodemarte wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:48 pm
In what way is dedicated criticism of any religion “Connections to Other Paths?” This thread is not an exploration of the historic connections between Islam and Buddhism or a comparison of the various doctrines held by various Buddhists and Muslims. It seems only to exist to throw up ill-informed attacks on Islam, in this case, to stir up rancorous discussions and bigotry. Is that the purpose of DW? If not, why serve as host for these discussions? There are other darker and more sinister places for that.
As noted in the OP, I split these posts from a thread that was an exploration of connections, since they were clearly off-topic.

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Caodemarte
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Caodemarte » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:12 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:23 pm
Caodemarte wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:48 pm
In what way is dedicated criticism of any religion “Connections to Other Paths?” This thread is not an exploration of the historic connections between Islam and Buddhism or a comparison of the various doctrines held by various Buddhists and Muslims. It seems only to exist to throw up ill-informed attacks on Islam, in this case, to stir up rancorous discussions and bigotry. Is that the purpose of DW? If not, why serve as host for these discussions? There are other darker and more sinister places for that.
As noted in the OP, I split these posts from a thread that was an exploration of connections, since they were clearly off-topic.

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Mike
Thanks for you response. You have a difficult job. I would agree that these are off topic. They should then be deleted. I don't think they should be used to create a new topic when that dedicated topic itself is simply not suitable for DW. It is not suitable because it has nothing to do with exploring connections to other paths and is, as the title underlines, a platform for criticizing another religion. It makes DW looks bad to people looking for discussion about Buddhism and attractive to people looking to attack other religions.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:16 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:45 pm
Dharmasherab wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:31 pm
Its a shame that anyone who brings up any rational criticism of Islamic teachings gets silenced by getting names called upon such as 'neo-conservative'

Hi Dharmasherab

Do you have an example of someone calling you (or someone else) a 'neo-conservative' because of their "rational criticism of Islamic teachings" on this forum?
Maybe you can convince newcomers that you have a point with that sly question.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by thomaslaw » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:14 am

Having read some of the postings about Islam, it is good to have this kind of discussion for a better understanding about Buddhist position facing current issues that Buddhists have to deal with. Note the Buddha in the early Buddhist texts also presented his criticism of other religions; e.g. the Buddha said 'not by birth does one become an outcaste 'vasala', ... by conduct one becomes an outcaste ...' This is clearly a criticism of the caste system's Brahmanism.

It seems the followers of Islam also could not live peacefully with different followers of Islam. Extreme Muslims in fact have problems with both Muslims and non-Muslims; extreme Muslims kill and will kill both Muslims and non-Muslims for their notion of Islam. For Buddhists they have to learn to be carefully and critically to protect themselves. Buddhists may need to help Muslims to see their true enemies are in fact internal, mental issues. For Buddhist they may need to know not only internal enemies but also external enemies.

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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by James Tan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:01 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:14 am
Having read some of the postings about Islam, it is good to have this kind of discussion for a better understanding about Buddhist position facing current issues that Buddhists have to deal with. Note the Buddha in the early Buddhist texts also presented his criticism of other religions; e.g. the Buddha said 'not by birth does one become an outcaste 'vasala', ... by conduct one becomes an outcaste ...' This is clearly a criticism of the caste system's Brahmanism.

It seems the followers of Islam also could not live peacefully with different followers of Islam. Extreme Muslims in fact have problems with both Muslims and non-Muslims; extreme Muslims kill and will kill both Muslims and non-Muslims for their notion of Islam. For Buddhists they have to learn to be carefully and critically to protect themselves. Buddhists may need to help Muslims to see their true enemies are in fact internal, mental issues. For Buddhist they may need to know not only internal enemies but also external enemies.
yes , as a buddhist we should well aware of the extremists threats as real not something far away from us .

rightviewftw
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:29 pm

a lot of it is wrong and impossible.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by manas » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:11 am

Just found a very informative video about why the extreme left won't criticize Islam.

Upeksha
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Upeksha » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:45 am

I suppose my critique of Buddhists who wish to criticise Islam is simply this: what real or adequate knowledge of the topic do you actually have? Where did it come from? Did it emerge from open ended and analytical inquiry? Did you learn it in the same way you approached Buddha-Dhamma? What is your critique grounded in? Have you studied Islam formally? Academically? Have you spoken to learned Muslims? What gives you confidence that your view is in fact true and well established?

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DooDoot
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by DooDoot » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:39 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:29 pm
~19k Jihad attacks since 9/11.
When the Muslim Turkic Qarakhanids captured the Buddhist city of Khotan in Xinjiang in 1006 CE, one of their poets penned this verse: “We came down on them like a flood/We went out among their cities/We tore down the idol-temples/We shat on the Buddha’s head.”
manas wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:11 am
Just found a very informative video about why the extreme left won't criticize Islam.
Only scratches the surface. This said, Islam is not really a threat to the West but only those so-called 'Westerners" using it as a weapon.
Upeksha wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:45 am
Did you learn it in the same way you approached Buddha-Dhamma?
You have made a mere assumption here that the critics of Islam here actually understand Buddha-Dhamma.
Upeksha wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:45 am
I suppose my critique of Buddhists who wish to criticise Islam is simply this: what real or adequate knowledge of the topic do you actually have? Where did it come from? Did it emerge from open ended and analytical inquiry? What is your critique grounded in? Have you studied Islam formally? Academically? Have you spoken to learned Muslims? What gives you confidence that your view is in fact true and well established?
The critics of Islam here appear to fail to consider that:

1. The Mongol & Turkic Qarakhanids massacred thousands, possibly millions, of Persian Muslims; that particularly many of the Mongol invaders received Buddhist training &/or teachings.

2. Contemporary Jihadist Extremists (since the time of President Eisenhower) are tools of US foreign policy, who murder Muslims. Anyone with common sense & logic would ask why is the Zionist Western media currently supporting anti-secular, anti-Christian Jihadists in Syria (including the 2016 media lies about Aleppo) and why Jihadists fought for Western objectives in Soviet-Afghanistan, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya & Syria. Ever since Trump gave the impression he ended the covert Obama program to fund terrorists, according to Israeli media, Israel is now openly funding these terrorists; just as Israel has flown hundreds of air bombing missions over Syria in the last 6 years or so.

3. In Australia, the only known Jihadi terrorist (Man Haron Monis) was sponsored by the Australian govt since his immigration to Australia and the Australia govt has allowed the family of ISIS Jihadi terrorists to resettle into Australia, similar to reports from Britain, France, Canada & elsewhere. Most Jihadi schools for children in the West are funded by Saudi Arabia, a political ally of Australia, USA, etc.

4. 3,000 Americans were murdered in broad-daylight on September 11 2001 yet many people still believe the official story this highly improbable successful attack was carried out by Jihadists living in caves in Afghanistan and that it was prudent for the so-called planner of this attack to be shot in Pakistan & his body dumped in the ocean.

5. Based on what these critics post, it seems they are 'educated' by the corporate (Military Industrial Complex & Zionist) mass-media.

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Kamran
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Kamran » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:18 pm

If you look at the violent Islamic groups they are clearly getting funding from US-backed Saudi Arabia, and even Israel is backing Islamic terrorists in Syria against Russia, Assad, and Iran.

US and its Saudi Allies have been using right wing religious extremist to counter threats to their interests for the last 50 yrs.

They starting supporting Islamic Terrorists to counter Arab Nationalism which was toppling their puppet kings in the 1950s.

Then to stop the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

Then To contain The Iranian Revolution.

And Today you see them supporting "rebels" in Syria who are clearly Al-Qeada affiliates in order to counter Russia, and Iran.

The "Islam" the right wing speaks of was nurtured and grown by the US and Saudi Arabia.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Greetings Kamran,
Kamran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:18 pm
If you look at the violent Islamic groups they are clearly getting funding from US-backed Saudi Arabia, and even Israel is backing Islamic terrorists in Syria against Russia, Assad, and Iran.
Are or were?

2018 is very different to 2016 and Isis and co. are a lot weaker than they one were.

Image
Kamran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:18 pm
Then the Americans and Israelis point at these fringe groups, which they themselves either directly, or indirectly support, to justify their propaganda against muslim countries that obstruct their greedy ambitions.
So they spend money to strengthen their enemies, because of greed? I'm all for looking beyond the mainstream narrative, but this one seems far too circular and counter-productive to give creedence to.

Again, the 2018 America First agenda is very different to globalist era (1989-2016) that came before it... it would be a mistake to conflate the two.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Kamran
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Kamran » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 pm

Hi Paul,

Their enemies are Iran, Sryria, Russia, etc. The islamist groups are the tools they use to weaken their enemies, just like they used Osama Bin Laden to kick the SOviets out of Afghanistan.

See below:

"Israel supports 7 Islamic Groups in Syria"

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... -1.5826348

Look into who these "rebels" the Israelis, and Saudi's are supporting in Syria. They are clearly Al-Qeada.

Why are they supporting Al-Qeada ?

Because Al-Qeada is the only effective force to counter Iran and Russia's influence in Syria.

Did you see that Trump sold over 100 billion in weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Well I can find for you a UN study that found Isis and Al-Qeada weapons were directly traced to US shipments to Saudi.

I'm sure US government is aware where these Saudi bound weapons are going, if I do ? Don't you?
"Silence gives answers"

Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

Upeksha
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by Upeksha » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:03 pm

For the critics of Islam: why do you think it is unreasonable to posit a distinction between Jihadi Islamic extremism which has its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood in Eygpt, before morphing into Al Qaeda and then IS - and, Islam per se as a set of texts, practices and cultures aimed at orienting a community towards a peaceful moral and religious outlook?

I think we can all agree that the former is extremely pernicious and has caused immeasurable harm - and that all political communities which have become targets of such harm, need to pay sufficient heed to the dangers and do what is necessary to mitigate them.

But the inference which links Jihadi extremism to Islam as a whole is a massive, massive leap. If you're going to make it, I think you would need to do so on theological grounds - and I am deeply skeptical that anyone here has a sufficient understanding of Islamic theology to do so. Which begs the question: if not on theological grounds, how are you leaping over that chasm? What is your argument and what is it grounded in?

If it's just internet memes and tabloid (or worse than tabloid) news, then forgive me for not signing up to your cause.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Criticism of Islam

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:14 pm

Greetings Kamran,
Kamran wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:35 pm
Well I can find for you a UN study that found Isis and Al-Qeada weapons were directly traced to US shipments to Saudi.
Dated when?... During the America First era, or the Globalist era?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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